By Chris Quick, on January 28th, 2012 It’s been a common, if not overused, refrain this offseason: the Giants overpaid for relief pitching. Early on, before the market really started to develop, the Giants picked up Jeremy Affeldt’s $5M option for 2012 without hesitation, and then turned around and signed a LOOGY, Javier Lopez, to a two-year, $8.5M deal. Both deals were, at the time, somewhat panned — or at least questioned.
Should the Giants be spending upwards of $9M per season between two relievers? Is it ever a good idea to pay $4M for a LOOGY? Should the team have saved its money and went in another direction?
In my opinion, those are all legitimate questions. I’m not going to rehash them, or my feelings on this specific topic — they’ve been covered here quite well, and in other spaces — but rather I would like to look at the reliever market and how it’s played out thus far. What’s been the going rate for relief pitching and did the Giants act too quickly when they brought back Affeldt and Lopez.
What I decided to do was take a grouping of relievers that have signed contracts this offseason, created a 5/4/3 weighted average WAR from the past three seasons, add in a slight aging adjustment to create a “projected” 2012 WAR, and then divide that total by the average annual value of their new deal to see how much per WAR each reliever is being paid.
The table:
| Player |
2009 |
2010 |
2011 |
2012 |
AAV |
WAR$ |
| Brad Lidge |
-0.8 |
0.3 |
0.3 |
-0.08 |
1 |
-13.33 |
| Darren Oliver |
1.5 |
1.6 |
1.3 |
1.35 |
4.5 |
3.33 |
| Takashi Saito |
0.4 |
1.2 |
0.2 |
0.48 |
1.75 |
3.62 |
| Jonathan Broxton |
2.8 |
1.1 |
-0.3 |
0.84 |
4 |
4.75 |
| Joe Nathan |
2.1 |
2.9 |
0 |
1.39 |
7.375 |
5.30 |
| Ryan Madsen |
1.3 |
1.3 |
1.7 |
1.37 |
8.25 |
6.04 |
| Jonathan Papelbon |
2 |
1.2 |
3 |
2.05 |
12.5 |
6.10 |
| Heath Bell |
2 |
2.4 |
0.5 |
1.41 |
9 |
6.39 |
| Octavio Dotel |
0.8 |
0.1 |
0.9 |
0.51 |
3.5 |
6.89 |
| Frank Francisco |
1.1 |
1 |
0.5 |
0.72 |
6 |
8.37 |
| Francisco Cordero |
1.4 |
0.5 |
0.1 |
0.46 |
4.5 |
9.82 |
| Javier Lopez |
-0.1 |
0.6 |
0.7 |
0.37 |
4.25 |
11.59 |
| Jon Rauch |
0.7 |
1.1 |
-0.6 |
0.19 |
3.5 |
18.26 |
| Jeremy Affeldt |
0.7 |
0.2 |
0.2 |
0.23 |
5 |
22.22 |
| Matt Capps |
-0.4 |
1.2 |
-0.4 |
0.03 |
4.75 |
142.50 |
Technically, Jeremy Affeldt wasn’t a free agent (the Giants chose to pick up his option), but I wanted to add him to our group for comparison’s sake.
Some reactions from the table…
- Brad Lidge is set to earn a piddly $1M with the Nationals on his new deal and despite his somewhat wacky WAR$ figure, I like the deal for the Nationals. Lidge is far from a sure thing, but he does possess upside — he never stopped striking out batters last year (10.7 strikeouts per nine); however, his walk rate (6.1 per nine) was high. He is incredibly cheap and if he can reign in his command a little, the Nats could do well. It’s a nice deal without any risk, really.
- Has Darren Oliver been the most underrated reliever in recent memory? It seems that year after year he posts solid to very good seasons, and yet the Blue Jays are paying him approximately $3.3M per win, the cheapest of any of our relievers. That’s a very nice bargain for the Jays. It’s possible that Oliver’s age (41 in 2012) had something to do with it, but he hasn’t shown any signs of slowing down and at a one-year deal the risk is minimal. Another solid deal.
- Among this group, once you remove the Lidge and Capps outliers, teams are paying approximately $7M per win on FA relievers.
- I like also like Takashi Saito and Jonathan Broxton’s deals. Saito has been a pretty good pitcher when healthy. Much like Lidge, his commitment is extremely minimal at $1.75M in salary for 2012. He projects as approximately a half-win pitcher, so he looks fairly paid. Broxton is something else entirely. He battled elbow injuries last year while only pitching 12.2 innings. His velocity and strikeouts have been down-trending, but it’s also hard to overlook from 2006-2009 he was one of the most dominant relievers in the National League. He projects at .84 wins on the strength of his previous work.
- I’m not a fan of Jonathan Papelbon’s deal with the Phillies — four years, $50 million — but he looks better than what I would have imagined. He posted a three win season last year with the Red Sox which is nearly unheard of from a reliever.
- Matt Capps is going to earn $4.75M to pitch for the Twins this year. It’s an overpay, the worst on our list, because Capps looks more like a replacement level pitcher than one that is above replacement level. His recent track record is mixed, too.
Now, to delve into the Giants’ portion of the list: Affeldt and Lopez. My main problem with Affeldt is that while he is a good pitcher, he only projects at .23 wins in 2012. That’s a solid bullpen guy, but it’s more back-end than late inning dominance. The Giants are going to pay him close to $22M per win added. That’s hugely out of whack with the average $7M per win that teams have paid out for this group. I think if the Giants don’t pick up Affeldt’s option, he signs for something like $2-3M on the market.
Paying Lopez $4.25M per year, in my opinion, is almost unforgivable. I love what Lopez has done for the Giants, but you just can’t pay your LOOGY $4M per year. The Giants will pay Lopez right around $11.5M per win — again, out of line with what we’ve seen in this group.
In the end, I think we can say that the Giants are paying a ‘premium’ for Affeldt and Lopez. Though, as I’ve previously written in other posts, it’s not overly surprising; Brian Sabean obviously likes stability in his bullpen. In Affeldt and Lopez the Giants surely have a sense of what they’ll be getting. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the team paid for a Lexus and instead got a Ford Fiesta. The Giants acted quickly to pick up Affeldt’s option and sign Lopez’s deal, but one has to wonder what would have happened if they waited a little longer for the market to develop.
By Chris Quick, on January 27th, 2012 Well then. I must say, this isn’t surprising.
CBSSports.com broke the story:
Though Theriot better fits defensively as a second baseman, he has a great shot at significant playing time at shortstop for the Giants. The only person standing in his way is Brandon Crawford, who hit just .204/.288/.296 last season, which is dreadful. Crawford could then fit well as a late-inning defensive replacement, as he’s the superior defender. It’s just that the Giants need the most offense they can get from any spot.
I think I can sum up my feelings on Theriot: he’s a poor defender at shortstop but he’s a much (infinitely?) better player than Emmanuel Burriss. He’ll come to Spring Training as the veteran challenger that will (theoretically) push Brandon Crawford. The Giants could chose to platoon Theriot with Crawford at shortstop. Theriot owns a career wRC+ of 107 against left-handed pitching, so he has some uses, but he certainly isn’t a “lefty masher”.
Theriot, 32, owns a career slash-line of .282/.344/.353 across seven seasons, mostly with the Cubs.
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EDIT: I actually talked a little bit about Theriot in my post ‘Visually comparing free agent shortstops‘. This is what I had to say:
He’s in the bottom third for hitting (25 out of 34), fielding (23 out of 34), and baserunning (29 out of 34). And yet he’s played a ton (6 out of 34). Go figure. For me, I’d place him in the minor league contract category. Though, I can see the Giants going for him if they want a utility player to shift between 2B and SS, even though by all accounts he’s a below average defender at short.
By Chris Quick, on January 27th, 2012 John Sickels, formerly of ESPN.com and now at SB Nation’s Minor League Ball, recently agreed to trade emails with me and answer some prospect questions. John has been writing about prospects since 1996 and is a seminal figure in the prospect watching community; he recently released his 2012 Giants ranking and his yearly edition of the John Sickels’ Prospect Book is set to release on January 28, 2012.
As always, it’s great to talk prospects with someone like John. Check out his responses to my questions below.
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Chris Quick: Eric Surkamp seems like a classic case of scouts versus numbers – in the sense that he dazzled the minor leagues but scouts weren’t always sold on his raw stuff. What do you make of him as a prospect? And, ultimately, what do you expect from him in the majors?
John Sickels: One of the interesting things about Surkamp is that, while he doesn’t throw hard, his component ratios (K/IP, H/IP, etc) in the minors were those of a power pitcher. This didn’t work so well in the majors, at least in his last few starts, but it is still a good marker for his future and should (in theory) give him an edge over other finesse guys with weaker components.
He jumped from Double-A to the majors without any Triple-A exposure, and I think that showed. Surkamp doesn’t project as an ace starter for me. . .he isn’t the type of guy you build your rotation around, but he deserves more chances and I think he has a shot at being a solid number four starter.
CQ: Even though Tommy Joseph and Andrew Susac rank higher, would it be fair to call Hector Sanchez the most well-rounded catcher in the system? Do the Giants have the best catching depth of any other farm system?
JS: Well, there are other teams that have good depth too, Toronto for example, but I would say that catching depth is certainly one of the main strengths of Giants system.
I think both Joseph and Susac have a higher offensive ceiling than Sanchez, but Sanchez isn’t bad. He’s only four months older than Susac and already has major league exposure. His glove is the most polished at this stage. There is some chance that Joseph may switch positions, and of course we don’t know how Susac will look in pro ball yet. According to the reports I have, both Joseph and Susac have the defensive tools to remain catchers. . .good arm strength, mobility, leadership skills. . .but Sanchez has the most polish right now.
I guess the answer to your question is yes, Sanchez is currently the most well-rounded, but Joseph and Susac also have a balance between offensive and defensive potential. Bottom line: the Giants have three potential major league regular catchers, and most organizations can’t say that.
CQ: Francisco Peguero strikes me as something of an oddity. On one hand, he has tools (speed, athleticism, and emerging power) that scouts universally appreciate. But, on the other hand, he might walk less than any other prospect I’ve ever seen. Can he succeed with a swing-at-everything approach or will he need to make some changes to succeed in the majors?
JS: That’s a tough call. Right now Peguero’s game is built around sustaining a very high BABIP. He’s gotten away with this in the minors, but in the majors he will face an uphill challenge making it work. It helps that he keeps his strikeout rate reasonably low, but the complete lack of walks is a big handicap. If he keeps hitting .300+, he has enough other skills to be useful, but let’s say he turns out to be just a .250-.270 hitter in the majors. In that case his OBP will be so low that he won’t hold a regular job no matter how good his other skills are, at least not for a good team.
Not everyone needs to be a walk machine, of course, but his case is quite extreme. He turns 24 in June and needs to make some progress this year. He’s quite fun to watch, especially on defense, but he’s frustrating too.
CQ: Fill in the blank(s): Gary Brown’s best case scenario is _______. Gary Brown’s worst case scenario is _______.
JS: Gary Brown’s best case scenario is a .300+ hitter with lots of doubles, triples, double-digit homers, 40-50 steals a year with a high OBP, a force at the top of the order with an excellent glove in center. Gary Brown’s worst case scenario is .250 hitter with a poor OBP, flashes of power but no consistent production, 15-20 steals if you give him regular playing time, a solid glove, a long career as a fourth outfielder but doesn’t hold regular status for more than a year or two.
CQ: Adam Duvall’s season (.285/.385/.527) with Augusta caught a lot people’s eyes, but he seems relatively unheralded. Are we reading too much into his numbers, or is he someone worth watching?
JS: Well, he’s certainly worth watching. He had a strong year for Augusta, but he was a college guy in Low-A, the scouting reports are middling, at best, and scouts don’t seem to think his swing will work at higher levels. He deserves a chance against better competition and he’ll get it, but unless he can duplicate this in Double-A, I think we need to wait and see.
CQ: Name some sleepers in the system that you think we should keep an eye out for.
JS: LHP Mike Kickham pitched much better than his ERA or won-loss record indicates, and was quite good down the stretch for Augusta. He has a chance to surprise. We already talked about Duvall. RHP Derek Law put up ridiculous numbers in junior college and was strong in his debut. He has a funky delivery that turns scouts off, but he’s got decent stuff and a chance to move quickly in relief. Outfielder Shawn Payne led the Northwest League in OBP, stole 21 bases, and was an effective player in college for Georgia Southern. He lacks power but could be a sleeper.
CQ: How do you treat the Dominican Summer League when prospect watching? What do you make of Adalberto Mejia?
JS: Mejia is certainly someone to watch closely as he transitions to North America, but I will reserve judgment beyond “interesting projectable lefty who threw strikes in the DSL.”
We are starting to see more and more attention being paid to the DSL and the Venezuelan Summer League. That’s a good thing, but it also complicates matters. Scouts will tell you to avoid paying attention to rookie ball performance, and that’s even truer for the Latin summer leagues than for the spring training complex leagues. Players at those levels are extremely difficult to judge from a distance.
I don’t have the travel budget to see the DSL or VSL in person. The stats aren’t especially predictive. Word of mouth, “insider information,” and scouting reports (if they exist at all) tend to be rather vague except for the big bonus players, and are sometimes completely inaccurate. So I tend to take a wait-and-see attitude about most of those guys.
CQ: Ehire Adrianza has consistently received excellent marks for his non-hitting game. Do you think he can ever hit enough to be a major league starting shortstop? Does positional scarcity ever influence your rankings?
JS: Certainly position matters: a first baseman has a higher offensive threshold to reach than a shortstop. In Adrianza’s case, the glove is excellent. His error rate is declining, and he’s always shown superior range, hands, and arm strength. I am very impressed with his defense.
His hitting isn’t hopeless. I don’t see a lot of future power development in him, but he did knock 34 doubles last year, and he has kept his strikeout rates reasonable. I have noticed that middle infielders who “exceed expectations” and develop more than expected offensively often had decent strikeout rates in the low minors, even if they weren’t showing power or drawing many walks or doing much else with the bat.
It is plausible that Adrianza will eventually hit enough, combined with his glove, to hold a regular job. I don’t think it is the most likely outcome, but it isn’t out of the question.
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Thanks to John for taking the time to answer my questions.
By Rory Paap, on January 26th, 2012
 I assume I have your attention.
On Tuesday, Tim Lincecum and the Giants came to an agreement on what he’ll be paid over the next two seasons before he has the opportunity to become a free agent. That agreement came in at a hefty $40.5 million:
The Giants had sought to buy out at least a couple of Lincecum’s free-agent years, but the right-hander’s camp had little interest in fouling up what almost certainly will be a gargantuan contract on the open market. Lincecum’s agent, Rick Thurman, proposed an eight-year structure. The Giants reportedly offered Lincecum $100 million over five years, which was turned down.
So, why is Lincecum so reluctant to sign a long-term deal with the Giants? I have three theories, which I will present in the order which I believe is most likely.
1) He wants to make as much money as possible and does not believe he will ever get hurt. Pretty simple. Most of us spend our lives trying to maximize our income at work, so why should an athlete be any different? Some people seem to forget that when they rush to call a player “disloyal and greedy.”
Also, why would he believe he’ll ever get hurt? His dad firmly believes that the way a modern pitcher–a pitcher like Matt Cain–throws a baseball is ludicrous. His father believes that 99 percent of professional pitchers are more likely to injure their arms than Lincecum. Don’t discount the fact that his dad has been pumping that notion into his brain since the time he was a very young boy. Timmy doesn’t even bother icing his arm.
2) Lincecum desperately wants to some day be in the Hall of Fame. Pitchers who have a lot of wins make it to Coooperstown. Pitchers who start for teams that don’t score runs don’t get wins. The Giants don’t score runs… Do I need to continue? I mean, Lincecum showed up nine times in Bill James‘ Grantland article on the 100 best pitching duels of 2011.
3) Lincecum simply wants to go home to Seattle, where he’d be beloved by his hometown, and he’d be near his parents and the condo he bought in downtown Seattle. This is my least likely scenario, but I don’t find it to be completely implausible either.
If we’re poised to bring Matt Cain into the conversation, I think it goes without saying that he’d be the easier of the two to retain. Just feels that way. Still, there’s just one thought in my mind that I’ve been considering a lot lately.
Lincecum is still small. He was small in high school when he was blowing hitters away in Bellevue, WA. He was small when he went to UW and broke the Pac-10 strikeout record. He was small in 2006 when the Giants were lucky enough to get him as the number-10 pick in the MLB draft. People said he’d get hurt, and then he won back-to-back Cy Young awards in the National League.
Still, the stigma that has followed him since amateur baseball: he’s too small to handle 200 innings in the major leagues, so he’ll eventually break down–still follows him today. I suspect that stigma will continue to follow him into free agency. I suspect that it will weigh heavily on the minds of each and every team that considers paying millions of dollars for him. How many more innings and pitches can Tiny Tim make?
And maybe, just maybe, that question will sneak into the minds of other front offices just enough that the Giants can find a way to pay him what it will take to keep him in The City. Just maybe.
My last question is whether or not the Giants can retain both Lincecum and Cain. More importantly, perhaps, do they even want to retain both? That’s a whole lot of stock and risk to put into two players, and we all saw how the Barry Zito deal turned out–though, granted, I do realize how ill-advised the deal was given Zito’s trends and stats at the time.
What I am saying is that it’s entirely possible that they’d prefer to retain one and make their decision by considering the value they think they might bring to the field with one or the other–and value from a marketing standpoint, specifically in ‘The Freak’s’ case. They would then, of course, measure that against the price tag to retain each player.
When you start to think about these questions, it then important to think about what Baggs mentioned about Lincecum’s camp–which promptly turned down five years and $100 million–and Cain’s (also from Baggarly):
…So next the Giants will turn their attention to extending Matt Cain, with club sources expressing confidence that a contract resembling Jered Weaver’s five-year, $85 million extension with the Angels would be acceptable to both parties.
Call me crazy, but I rather like the structure of a five-year deal for 27-year-old Matt Cain at a list price of $85 million, especially when I consider the fact that, according to Fangraphs–a website that purely underrates him–he’s been worth $86.3 million over the past five years. Considering inflation and the fact that he’s likely to spend the majority of that contract still in his prime, I’ll take that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
My heart says I want both Cain and Lincecum to play for the Giants forever, that they’ll someday both retire the same year and five years later enter the Coop as best pals, each wearing a Giants cap. But my brain says it might be better to pick one or the other and hope for the best.
Either way, meaning whether they keep Cain and Lincecum or just Cain or just Lincecum, I just hope the Giants make the right decision. And, again, my heart wants the right decision to be to retain both. I don’t ever want to see Lincecum–or Cain–in a Yankees cap.
(Should anyone feel the need to blame someone for the picture, make it me, but please also know that Chris Quick did the Photoshop editing.)
You can follow Rory (@Paapfly) on Twitter.
By Chris Quick, on January 25th, 2012 I have an unhealthy obsession with Sergio Romo and his slider. Our support group — Sliders Anonymous, co-chaired by Aaron Rowand — meets on Thursdays. The obsession might sound weird, but can you really blame me? It’s a pitch that defies logic. It’s a pitch that Romo throws with impunity, batters can’t touch it. It’s a pitch that makes hitters take some of the most goofy, bent-armed, swings I’ve ever seen. It’s a pitch that has quickly become one of the best pitches in baseball.
It’s a great freaking pitch.
I decided that while I’ve written a lot on Romo and why I enjoy watching him do his thing, I haven’t written a lot about his main weapon — the slider. Oh, that devastating slider.
To remedy such an injustice, I present, in bullet point fashion: Romo Slider Facts.
- The Pitch F/X system tracked 656 pitches from Romo in the 2011 season; 354 of those pitches were sliders. That’s a slider percentage of 53.9%.
- Romo’s average slider speed was just a hair over 79 miles per hour.
- Of the 354 sliders Romo threw, batters took a cut 185 times. Of those 185 swings, batters completely missed the pitch 94 times. That’s a whiff percentage (94/185) of 50.8%.
- The league average slider has a whiff rate of 32.7%. Romo’s slider got an additional 13.6% whiff rate over the league average slider.
- Which batter had the most swings and misses against Romo’s slider? Matt Kemp took seven swings against the slider. He missed five times.
- Matt Kemp is really freaking good at baseball.
- He couldn’t hit Romo’s slider last season.
- Romo gave up just two home runs all year on his slider. Dan Uggla hit one and Alexi Casilla hit the other. (Casilla only hit two home runs all season, and he hit one on one of the toughest pitches in baseball. Go figure.)
- Romo has been historically very tough on right-handed batters, largely due to the natural movement and break of the slider. He owns a career K/9 of 12.62 against them. In 2011, only 10 times did a RHB put one of Romo’s sliders into play as a base hit.
I could go on for hours about this stuff. If you have a specific slider fact that you’d like to share, please post it in the comments.
And finally, this wouldn’t be a slider post if I didn’t include at least one slider.gif of Romo making someone look completely helpless at the dish.

This sustains me.
By Chris Quick, on January 24th, 2012 As you may have heard, Cody Ross has agreed to a one-year deal worth three million dollars to play for the Boston Red Sox. Ross ends his Giants career with a slash-line (.247/.330/.414, 108 OPS+) that’s more or less the equivalent of his career slash-line (.261/.323/.456, OPS+ 105). In other words, Cody Ross was always . . . → Read More: Cody Ross summed up in three videos
By Chris Quick, on January 23rd, 2012 Recently, in a blog post on the SweetSpot Blog, David Schoenfield ranked the five best rotations in baseball. The Giants did not make the cut, even though Dave did acknowledge that the rotation is talented.
Dave had this to say on the rotation:
Yes, the Giants had the second-best rotation ERA in the majors last . . . → Read More: Exploring the Giants’ rotation depth
By Chris Quick, on January 21st, 2012 The next in my patented line of the why-god-am-I-doing-this series of Melky .gifs, I present to you a celebratory .gif that honors Melky Cabrera’s recent one-year, six million dollar deal with the San Francisco Giants baseball club.
I demand you give me satisfaction, forthright!
(This is what happens when I stop sleeping and drink . . . → Read More: I give you, Rich Melky [.gif]
By Chris Quick, on January 20th, 2012 Happy Friday, have some links to go with your day.
I recently noticed the Giants’ motherpage has a neat non-roster invitee section that lists all the NRIs for the coming camp. It’s your normal mix of prospects with journeymen-type players looking for another shot at the majors. The always interesting Chris Jaffe of The Hardball . . . → Read More: Friday Links: NRIs, Randy Winn has skills, and Tim Lincecum is good.
By Chris Quick, on January 18th, 2012 Tweet: Orlando Cabrera to retire from baseball, he said in Colombia radio station. Thanks for memories! @Enrique_Rojas1
I’ll never forget you, O-Cab.
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