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akamikedavid
akamikedavid

While regression will definitely happen, i think the idea of Pagan having a career year is a little overblown.  Yes he played a little over his head but we're not talking about a Huff-ian sudden resurgence only to come crashing back.  Don't have the stats on hand (and too lazy to look them up at the moment) but from what i recall his lines last year were pretty comparable to where he has been in his career.  The biggest issue would be if he can maintain a consistent approach rather than getting these crazy hot and cold streaks like he did last year.  Ditto that for Blanco.

kennv
kennv

"Sanchez at first" - while it was discussed never happened. I just don't think we need to worry about it. It's the new "Schierholtz at third" thing that just goes on for far too long.

I wonder, aside from Posey, who might the Giants use to leech 1st base starts from Belt. Panda got 12 innings there last year. Huff is gone. Is Pill still a thing? The more interesting question is whether Belt might get some starts in Left, when Posey is at first.

DrBGiantsfan
DrBGiantsfan

glib,

Does the term "sample size" mean anything to you?

sweat
sweat

OFF-TOPIC!

I will be heading to San Fran for this first time to catch a couple of games when the Blue Jays roll through town. Is there anywhere in the stadium that I should avoid buying tickets? I like watching the game from pretty much anywhere, but I don't want to have an obstructed view. Any tips?

Domthelaw
Domthelaw

There's not a bad seat in the house. Arguably the best sight-lines for fans in any park in the majors.

Roger
Roger

Of course, I realize that approach doesn't really make for such good blogging material. Sorry about that Chris!

Roger
Roger

Sam Miller wrote an article on BProspectus the other day on the Giants offseason and the history of standing pat. It's subscriber only so no need to link to it, but it was a pretty interesting historical overview of the standing pat philosophy. But what I mostly loved was the conclusion, which seems as good a summation of Giants fans' situation as any I've read:

"So it was a quiet offseason. It was really noisy at first, with the parade and all, and then quiet. It’s probably a little better for an organization to be hungry than to be content. But, realistically, a team isn’t going to win more than a World Series or two in a generation. Within reason, there’s no substantial harm in sitting back to enjoy it."

That's my approach to 2013. No projections, no hopes, just waiting for it to happen knowing the warm inner glow of 2010/12 will keep me warm come what may.

glib
glib

My relative pessimism on Posey is not only related to his pedestrian 2011, but also to the average postseason batting stats (I think cumulatively 2010-2012 he is just a shade below 800), and also that he saw so many lefties last year, including many young pitchers. Can he crush lefties? Sure. But he will see fewer of them (compared to 2012) through his career. Low statistics estimators, but three independent ones.

For Panda, better production can be had from better health, as others have stated. Likewise, the Brandons are gaining experience, the natural way for both of them is to go up.

I am pessimistic about Pence, he might produce another 670 OPS season, but the way he looks at the plate, the mediocre batting eye, I think he is declining. Even in his prime, he was playing in hitter parks, with some H/A splits. I hope Bruce can be convinced to bat him 6th or 7th. I think everyone agrees that Pagan and Scutaro will face age-related declines.

bradley
bradley

Posey has not yet had a full healthy season. One could just as easily speculate that he has not yet reached his peak. His mini-slumps where he spends about a week doing nothing more than grounding out to shortstop, before he gets back to going opposite field to get out of those slumps. He also has a tendency to swinging through belt high 4-seam fastballs. There is as much chance that he gets even better, as there is the chance that he regresses. The sample size is just too small to know. In 3 years we will have several years of data to base our projections. One could look at similar players, assuming there are any, and figure that last year projects as his absolute career year. However, he was coming off of a major injury so it is difficult to know. There is every reason to believe that Belt will get better, as he seemed to improve the second time around that he saw the same pitchers. We just do not know if Crawford has the ability to improve on offense or not. As he gets stronger he could produce some better power, even if he does not move on average. Hard to say what Pablo's true talent level is, but he seems to have a high bar if he can avoid injuries, and an increasing body mass index.

Aman
Aman

With all this talk about regression, why is there no talk of the opposite, progression. There is just as much of a chance of Posey, Scutaro, Pagan, and Pence regression as there is progression of other players such as Sandavol, Crawford, Belt, Lincecum........ The progression of others can very well equal the regression of those few. Why does no one mention this?

TSF
TSF

Regression refers to returning back to career norms, so it implies some players will be better in 2013 (Pence, Lincecum, Torres) and others worse (Scutaro, Pagan, Blanco) when compared against their 2012 performance.

Sandoval doesn't even have to reach the next level of performance to be valuable, he just has to stay healthy and stay fit. All-Star caliber seasons from Sandoval and Posey are worth more to the team than an MVP season from Posey alone.

That said, there are a lot of question marks regarding Lincecum/Belt/Crawford. Lincecum is in a transition period where he's clearly not the pitcher he was from 2008/2009, but we aren't even sure if he's the 2010/2011 guy anymore. Belt and Crawford have yet to prove themselves as solid starters. In Crawford's case, he has to make up for a lack of hitting talent with experience, and the offensive expectations for him are not that high, anyway. It's a lot tougher for Belt who has to perform at a high level for the team to be competitive.

Pitching/defense and no offense wasn't good enough to make the playoffs in 2011, and it sure as heck isn't good enough for 2013.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

I think people misunderstand the word 'regression'. Regressing towards the mean doesn't always imply that performance gets worse; it can also mean an improvement.

glib
glib

Posey was hitting around 760 OPS in mid 2011, when he got injured. I don't see him hitting 900+ year after year. In the postseason he saw righties only and he was good but nothing special. I think his natural level is around 850.

Roger
Roger

ESPN had a heat map up the other day of 2012 Posey vs LHP. Man he did some serious lefty mashing last year!

DrBGiantsfan
DrBGiantsfan

glib,

That was May of 2011 for Posey's injury. So, 6+ weeks of a 760 OPS in what should have been his first full season tells you something pertinent about what is true talent level will be for the rest of his career?

Ryan
Ryan

The regression we should be rooting for is a regression of Sandoval's boiler Nice HR to help win the Venezuela WS though.

DrBGiantsfan
DrBGiantsfan

It might be interesting to go back and look at ZIPS projections for 2012 and compare how these players performed in relation to their projection.

Stef
Stef

Posey hasn't had a full season as the starter. He has no established baseline before last season. Same with Crawford.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

Not really. I'm talking about BABIP -- mostly -- which applies to nearly every player at the same rate. It's true that hitters have more influence of their BABIP -- and why I called Posey a likely high-average BABIP batter -- but expecting Posey's true talent to be somewhere about 70-percent above league average on offense is nuts.

glib
glib

Agree with the general sentiment. Pagan, Scutaro, Posey, Pence will decline, some substantially. I think ZIPS is too pessimistic regarding the other four fielders. Blanco hit 413/414 in the Venezuela League. Panda ran out of hamates. The Brandons will improve. It is not too optimistic to see only a gently decline of the team as a whole, perhaps a -20 cumulative.

Ryan
Ryan

Pence declines anymore and he's out of the league :-\

Rob
Rob

Hey there,

Nice work on your articles. You mention a few times Posey's "established mean" or "established career" statistics. My question is, why is it assumed that Posey's career numbers prior to 2012 are considered his established mean? Posey only has 1,115 at bats in his young major league career. a full 47.5% of his career at bats came last season alone. Why is it assumed that his career numbers will regress to the statistical means established in the first 52.5% of his at bats as opposed to his latter 47.5%? Coulndn't it be argued that Posey's numbers prior to 2012 might actually prove to be the statistical outlier? The sample sizes are nearly equivalent. As he grows and gets to know pitchers in the league, and learns more, he may actually improve. Perhaps his career numbers are actually "progressing" towards his 2012 numbers as his early career numbers came in an environment defined by lack of big league experience. More generally, can it really be argued that a player with only 308 games played even has an "established mean" vis-a-vis career statistics?

TSF
TSF

Posey's projection includes his 2012 numbers. If you take his career mean values and weigh each year's numbers with respect to the %career PA's he's accumulated, you get a ballpark figure for the 2013 projections. With my messy math, I calculated Posey's 2013 OBP at .380, which is 3% higher than the ZIPS projection of .372.