Baseball-Reference query presented with very little comment

The best catching seasons – minimum 75 percent games played at C – for the Giants’ franchise.

Rk	Player	WAR/pos	Year	Age	Tm
1	Buster Posey	6.1	2012	25	SFG
2	Roger Bresnahan	5.6	1908	29	NYG
3	Walker Cooper	5.1	1947	32	NYG
4	Buck Ewing	4.6	1888	28	NYG
5	Buck Ewing	4.5	1884	24	NYG
6	Chief Meyers	4.4	1912	31	NYG
7	Dick Dietz	4.2	1970	28	SFG
8	Buck Ewing	4.1	1889	29	NYG
9	Buck Ewing	3.9	1885	25	NYG
10	Harry Danning	3.8	1939	27	NYG

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 9/14/2012.

It’s Buster Posey and bunch of really, really old dead guys. We are witnessing greatness. Also, man, do I love Dick Dietz – The Mule! – but while he’s probably the best modern hitting “catcher” for the Giants, his defense was something terrible. In 1970, while posting a mind-boggling 150 OPS+, he tallied 25 passed balls and 69 wild pitches. Also, baserunners were 92 for 113 in stolen bases against him. That kind of raises the question: Just who did Dick Deitz throw out in ’70?

In summation: Buster Posey is awesome and we’re witnessing the greatest season, ever, from a Giants catcher.

17 comments

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bwradley

To answer your question about Dick Dietz, the SB v. CS figures are actually worse than you listed. Of the 21 CS, 6 were actually pick offs:4-24 v. MTL (H)--Jim Fairly4-30 v NY (H)--Cleon Jones5-9 v NY (A)--Ken Boswell6-21 v SD (A)--Pat Dobson8-16 v StL (A)--Lou Brock9-3 v CIN (A)--Bobby TolanDietz was credited with a CS on 6-2-70 v StL on Dick Allen, but Allen was actually safe on 2nd due to a Ron Hunt error.This is who Dietz actually threw out in 1970:4-9 v. HOU (H)--Joe Morgan (Frank Reburger pitching)4-14 v ATL (A)--Felix Millan (Don McMahon)4-29 v NY (H)--Dave Marshall (Frank Linzy)5-11 v. SD (A)--Ollie Brown (Gaylord Perry)5-16 v LA (A)--Billy Grabarkewitz (Perry)5-27 v LA (H)--Wes Parker (Marichal)6-23 v. CIN (A)--Bobby Tolan (Reburger)6-24 v CIN (A)--Jimmy Stewart (NOT THE ACTOR) (McMahon)--Note: Last Game At Crosley Field7-5 v. LA (H)--Manny Mota (Reburger)7-19 v NY (H--Game 1)--Tommy Agee (Rich Robertson)8-14 v StL (A--Game 1)--Jose Cardinal (Marichal)9-18 v SD (A)--Chris Cannizzaro

FANsince1976

I thought for sure Kirk "What Is That" Manwaring would have made the list! ;-) He did have 3.0 WAR in 1992.

Buster can become just the third Giants catcher ever with a 100+ RBI. Walker Cooper had 122 RBI in 1947 and Dick Dietz had 107 RBI in 1970. Go Buster!

Tim0322

You're underselling it. Here's a list of highest Adjusted OPS+ by a catcher in the live-ball era:Piazza 1997 185Piazza 1995 172Posey 2012 171Mauer 2009 170Piazza 1996 166Bench 1972 166I make a mental adjustment for Piazza's probable steroid use. Posey's 2012 stacks up with two no-doubt MVP seasons by catchers. (Another comp: Mike Schmidt was a 170 OPS+ in 1980 at his peak). Sure, Posey is not the defensive catcher Bench was. But his offensive season is being somewhat underrated, because most people haven't mentally adjusted to the fact that league-wide offense is now at the low end of post-mound standardization baseball, and that Posey hits in a ballpark that severely reduces offense.

iamwallstreet

If Posey doesn't win the MVP it's rigged.

ariess

All good points, but as we post on 9/15/12, Molina on St.Louis, has a higher WAR than Posey, but my guess is that Posey has better stats in regard to the journalist sports writers criteria when it comes to MVP worthiness. Although, I would say this without clear certainty.

This comment has been deleted

campanari

@ariess I don't see an indication that ESPN makes that distinction. But given the very disparate numbers of games Posey played at each position--relatively few at 1B this year--I doubt that conflating the stats really affects the observation in the Original Post.

incidentally, I remember seeing Walker Cooper in 1947, when (B-R tells me) he had a 140 OPS+ with 35 HRs, and the admiration for him that year. How good he was in terms of what we expect from ML ballplayers nowadays, I don't know. But he was most famous as being able to make throws to second base, to catch runners trying to steal, without standing up--he could throw fast and accurately from some slight modification of his catcher's squat.

I am not sure of exactly what metrics ESPN uses in their war data, but for example, Cueto, is worth more than two times the WAR of Cain. Use of WAR when it comes to numbers like that make me have doubts about its accuracy. I wonder if Posey's first base games vs. his catcher games are well delineated in the data.

s_oblizalo55

ariess Thats what I was getting at. He is putting up better numbers than majority of mlb 1b.

What do you think his WAR would be if he wasn't a catching position in which all defensive metrics are retarded?

I guess Bob Brenly's 1984 was not good enough to crack the list. I thought he got a couple of MVP votes that year.

ariess Brenly had 3.5 WAR in 1984, just missing the list. He got 1 MVP vote as well.

mccoveychron

Should of taken Justin Smoak

mccoveychron Ha! One the few times the Tampa Bay Rays made the wrong draft pick. LoL!

Chris Quick

mccoveychron We can probably still get him lol.

Chris Quick Should of taken Kyle Skipworth

mccoveychron Chris Quick My Giants team has a Beau Mills on it somewhere. I am an idiot.

Baseball-Reference query presented with very little comment

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