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michael
michael

Can we talk about how bad Cain has been since the perfect game?  As I type this, he's just given up a HR to Ruben Tejada (the 2nd of his career).  We talk about all the problems with the rest of the team, but Cain is supposed to be the ace and he has certainly not been one lately.

dimpled chad
dimpled chad

@michael Good observation 4.01 ERA since the perfect game in 50+ innings.

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ariess
ariess

I like Joseph because he looks like my son, who also used to catch in high school, but was clearly not good enough to  play pro ball.  I thought he might be able to sneak in as Joseph one day, but now Joseph is gone.  This trade would not have been at all necessary if the stubborn giants would have just signed Beltran at the beginning of the season.  We would still have Joseph, and Schierholtz as a back up outfielder, and Seth Rosin as a prospect.  Now we get a guy who will cost almost as much as Beltran, whom we will have until the end of 2013, and have given up 3 pieces to get him.  What will we do with Scutaro when Sandoval comes back?

hsmooth21
hsmooth21

Scuturo will platoon at 2nd and shortstop. Even third when Sandoval plays 1st...

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foiledagain
foiledagain

Why not this lineup?1. Blanco, CF – or potentially Pagan

2. Scutaro, SS

3. Cabrera, LF

4. Posey, 1B

5. Sandoval, 3B

6. Pence, RF

7. Sanchez C

8. Theriot, 2B

9. Pitcher

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FANsince1976
FANsince1976

I don't get the love for Tommy Joseph. He's contact skills are terrible. And his pitch recognition is not good either. His walk rate has improved in 2012 but still is not great.  I don't see any scenario where Joseph is a major contributor to the Giants as long as Buster Posey and Hector Sanchez are around. 

TSF
TSF

FANsince1976 He is stupid young and has tremendous raw skills. There's no exaggeration in saying he was one of the more exciting younger prospects in the system. It wasn't likely he could stick at catcher, but he could be an above average 1B someday and, most importantly, he is right handed. Depth like that was important in case Belt busts, but Joseph - like Wheeler - was a long way from helping this team now. Brown could conceivably be in the mix for CF next year or even have his cup of coffee this September. The trade is meh to me. The biggest fear is, of course, that Pence isn't a substantial upgrade over a non-slumping Blanco and Pagan. Even without parting with Joseph, we still have a hole in the bullpen. I largely suspect Sergio Romo's recent, dramatic implosions were due to overwork. He was DL'd last year around this time with an elbow injury and I remember how fatigue weakened him in the 2010 postseason. If Romo gets DL'd again, this team needs to rely on Kontos more or seriously get a ROOGY or a closer.Chris - The offseason is going to be a decision between Pence and Cabrera. Going into this season, the Giants had to worry about Posey and Bumgarner as Super Two, but took care of Bumgarner early. But that still leaves Posey, and even with the money freed up from Rowand, that's going to be tied up immediately in either Pence or Cabrera. I just hope that the team survives August so we can look forward to that crossroad.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

TSF Believe or not, but Sabean was quoted today saying that he wants to keep both Cabrera and Pence on the team moving forward.

FANsince1976
FANsince1976

Chris Quick I guess the Giants are going up the checkbook in the offseason? This should be interesting.

FANsince1976
FANsince1976

TSF Joseph is 21 years old and in AA. That is not stupid young for AA. Other than his power what other outstanding raw skills does he have on offense? His walk rate has improved in 2012 but it still not that good. Guys who can't draw walks in the minors usually can't draw walks in the majors. I always wondered if Joseph could play 1B or perhaps LF?  The Phillies have a good catching prospect of their own so I  am curious to see how become the Phillies catcher of the future. 

FANsince1976
FANsince1976

TSF Power can be developed. Lots of players have shown little HR power in the minors then developed power in the majors. Andrew McCutchen is a good example. George Brett, Jeff Bagwell, and Kirby Puckett are other examples. But this doesn't apply to Joseph. His calling card was and is power. And his defense has gotten much better as well. I hope he does well in Philadelphia. As for Belt I just don't understand what is gong on with him. I went up to Seattle in June to watch the Giants-Mariners three game series and he looked confident at the plate.This was during his two week hot streak. I thought for sure he had turned the corner and was ready to be a solid major leaguer. I hope he gets his bat going again. I've always liked Belt.

FANsince1976
FANsince1976

Chris Quick What development has Joseph had that is so impressive? Like I said Joseph has good power. But like Angel Villalona before, Joseph has poor contact skills so far. I'm not saying Joseph can't develop better contact skills but so far his BB/K rate has been mostly terrible until this season.  Obviously, being 20-21 in AA is a good thing but people just assume because he's young he's going to be good in the future. That's an unwarranted assumption IMO. He a nice prospect so far but I don't think it's a big loss for the Giants given they have Posey and Sanchez in the majors and Susac in the Cal League (though he's be surprisingly mediocre). Right now Joseph greatest value is as trade value and that's how the Giants used him to get Pence. Losing Joseph is no big loss for the Giants.  

TSF
TSF

FANsince1976 Power is very important because (like arm strength) it's a tool that can't be taught or developed through experience. Joseph has both, and he's at a young enough age where he could make big strides in his %BB and AVG. The Giants have historically also treated AA as a litmus test for prospects - if they do well there, they're on the fast track to the major league roster. AAA has developed into a waiting room for failed prospects, rehab stints, career minor leaguers or backup players. So if you want a good idea of how the Giants view a prospect, their AA numbers is good foreshadowing.This was the big reason why Belt became such a tremendous prospect - he not only destroyed A-Ball pitching, he destroyed AA-Ball pitching in the same year. I'm sure the Giants thought Belt was a far more advanced hitter than we've found he is, but I hope the commitment they're showing him by not trading him builds confidence.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

And, also, remember that this is considered his "age 20 baseball" season because he didn't turn 21 until July 16. Even more impressive if you ask me.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

FANsince1976 Joseph is fairly young for his league and level. In 2012, the average hitter's age in the EL is 24.5 years (Joseph is nearly 3.5 years younger); the average pitcher in the EL is 24.8 years. That's what makes his development so impressive. He's young. He's holding his own. That's quite good.

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AndyG
AndyG

In a vacuum, the trade is pretty costly. But this trade came on the heels of some major dodger moves (Hanley/Victorino/maybe Dempster) and it fills in a major hole that the giants have had since Blanco cooled down.And who knows? Pence is certainly capable of hitting something approaching .290 the rest of the way. If he's batting 5th or 6th that should mean some more runs. No more Belt striking out with two on, two out thankyouverymuch. Maybe Pence will be the extra spark the offense needs, which has been a streaky offense this year.

ariess
ariess

AndyG Pence swings at everything, and he also strikes out a lot.  We should have a solid lineup, and Pence is good when he is hot, but he also has his cool streaks. 

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

AndyG The real loss is Jospeh. Losing Nate really isn't a big deal since Blanco has played so well this year, and Rosin is essentially an interesting-ish throw-in, most deals seem to have a Rosin-type in them. The good news is that Pence is controllable in 2013 and that surely drove up the price a little.

AndyG
AndyG

Chris Quick That's true, but one has to figure that TJ was destined for the trade block. The giants might have less depth than before at the C position, but most teams would be happy with the Posey/Sanchez/(panda?) tandem that the giants could use at C.  IMO, the most value TJ was gonna give to the team in the near future was precisely this - the centerpiece in a trade that has playoff hopes written all over it.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

@tyrannoman Yeah, in the meantime, while Sandoval is hurt, but I'd love to see the team platoon Scutaro at SS and 2B once Sandoval gets back.

tyrannoman
tyrannoman

I think we'lk see an IF of Scutaro (3B) Crawford (SS) Theriot (2B) Sandoval (1B)