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duncanfromglenhaven
duncanfromglenhaven

right now it's 4-4 in the 6th.  the giants may win or they may lose (and if they win starting burriss culberson and crawford it's a modern miracle) but they are at least taking some looks and some good at bats

yogi berra
yogi berra

I've talked with Pitchers that, once they get up to an 8-10 pitch-count, they just want to lay the ball over the plate, to get rid of the guy, and move on to the next batter! They've already been beaten....

(If 9 batters, drew 10 pitches each, that's already 90 pitches, and even if they were all outs, then he's still only pitched 3 innings!)

Last year, Pablo & Huff led the league in hitting into 1st pitch Double-Plays!

That literally, is a Pitcher's Dream Come True....

Robert Haymond
Robert Haymond

Well, I was surely wrong and it turns out that Chris and other pundits were right:  Emmanuel Burris was not a good pick-up for the giants.  The unpredictability factor was not a factor.  On the other hand, Melky Cabrera was an outstanding pick-up and we're glad to have him.  It also appears that longterm contracts such as Barry Zito's is not the way to go (see Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder).  So, it's the farm system where excellent teams (other than the Yankees and Red Sox which are cash rich) must be nurtured.  It does not appear that the Giants have an outstanding group of newish prospects, however.  Bochy continues to look bad as does the Giant front office.  The problem is that they do not need to listen to their fans as they make so much money.  The end!

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duncanfromglenhaven
duncanfromglenhaven

Yogi, case in point is Cliff Lee's 10 innings v the Giants in which he threw 102 pitches to 34 hitters.  Granted, Cliff Lee is a pretty freaking awesome pitcher, but that's ridiculous.  that's why I quite like Blanco and Belt at the top of the order, which they started with the other day.  Even if Belt's bat isn't exactly on fire at the moment, he still makes pitchers earn the out if he doesn't draw a walk.  And his power swing seems to have deserted him so it's not like you can bat him clean up ...

yogi berra
yogi berra

@duncanfromglenhaven ....I'll save you a copy, when the book comes out! 8-))

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dimpledchad
dimpledchad

 @yogi berra While I agree with the need to take more pitches, your stats are not accurate.  The MLB leader in pitches per plate appearance is Adam Dunn, at 4.57 pitches per appearance, far fewer than the six pitches you say the great hitters see.  Gregor Blanco is currently at 3.93.

yogi berra
yogi berra

If I wanted to explain the Giant's problems to a foreigner, and make another Million Dollars with my 60+ years of Baseball experience, I would write a book entitled, "The 6-Pitch Rule"....

Basically stated, when a batter can draw 6 pitches or more, good things happen (walks, wild pitches, passed balls, stolen bases, even foul balls). When he draws 5 pitches or less, not-so-good things happen (Double-Plays, Strikeouts, etc)!

I believe that Gregor Blanco is the only Giant who averages close to six pitches per at bat. The other 24 don't.

The best talent in the world, who can occasionally hit the first pitch in the seats (1 out of 500 times), are no better than my Grandmother, who can at the very least, take 3 Called Strikes!

Think about it, if she were to bat 27 times, yet never swing the bat, the pitcher would have to throw a minimum of 81 pitches (at the rate of 100% Strikes).

The best hitters (OBP) in baseball, average 5-7 pitches, per at bat.

Most Giant hitters are impulsive, and average between 1-4 pitches per at bat.

On the other hand, the best pitchers in baseball, proceed to the next batter, with 5 pitches or fewer, giving them the opportunity to throw a Complete Game with 135 pitches, or less. A Pitcher averaging 6 pitches per batter, would have to throw 162 pitches in order to throw a Complete Game, and these days, that's not going to happen, and remember, the Starting Pitcher is generally the best pitcher a team has available, on any given day!

During 2011, and this year, while the Giant's hitters have averaged among the lowest amount of pitches taken in the league, their Pitching Staff, has averaged among the highest pitch-count per batter in the league!

Why is that?

Because they've collectively fallen in love with the Strikeout....

If you'd care to test the theory of the "6-Pitch Rule", check out the boxscores, and you'll find that more than 90% of the games played, are won by the team with the most players taking 6 or more pitches per at bat!

You can have all the talent in the world, but if your hitters don't honor the 6-Pitch Rule, and your Pitchers don't aim for the bats, your odds of winning, are worse than beating a Las Vegas Casino!

Why are Giants' fans frustrated by this recent Baseball Torture?

This is your explanation, in a Nutshell!

Seagulls in the Outfield
Seagulls in the Outfield

 @yogi berra Brilliant analysis. I've been a long time advocate of the Giants implementing a policy that would keep the batters from swinging at the first pitch. I do admit that it probably shouldn't be that restrictive, but there are obvious advantages to taking pitches, as you laid out above. Pablo will say that a big improvement in his game has been being more patient and selective at the plate. Every time someone like Posey hits a double on the first pitch last night, and last week Pill hit one out on the first pitch, everyone clamors for swinging at the first pitch. And I do see the advantages in certain situations, like a rally where you want to keep the momentum going. However, any pitcher will tell you that the longer an AB goes, the more advantage the batter has. The pitcher starts with all the advantage, but each pitch the batter sees gives him more insight into what the next one will be, and also gives the team more insight into that as well. 

Damon
Damon

Offense-wise, the best part of the game was that the Giants had 10 walks. The worst part of the game is that they could only score 4 runs despite having 18 total baserunners.(7 hits, 10 Bb, 10 HPB).

Seagulls in the Outfield
Seagulls in the Outfield

Ya, I hadn't thought of the LH issue at 3B, good point. In a pinch, they could have pulled Blanco into play 2B and move Culberson to 3B. Kruk and Kuip joked that Bochy would have brought Bumgarner in to play 2B. Either of those would be better than Huff at 2B...:)

Seagulls in the Outfield
Seagulls in the Outfield

I was looking forward to seeing that :) Sanchez was on deck, so if Schierholtz had gotten on, he would have been in the game. Move Posey to 1B and Belt to 3B? Kruk and Kuip were joking about bringing in Bumgarner to play 2B. 

dimpledchad
dimpledchad like.author.displayName 1 Like

Anyone want to guess how the infield would have looked had the Giants tied the game in the bottom of the ninth with Schierholtz PH for Burriss?  Schierholtz to 3B?  Arias was out, Pill was out.

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dimpledchad
dimpledchad like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Seagulls in the Outfield Don't think a lefty at 3B would work.  I thought perhaps Sanchez would go behind the plate (didn't notice he was on-deck), and Posey would move to 3B.  Too bad Huff had already been used - they could have always put him at his familiar 2B position and move Culberson to 3B. :)

Seagulls in the Outfield
Seagulls in the Outfield

It's not hard to imagine a better outing from Lincecum without the errors. Of course you can't totally excuse him based on the fielding alone, but those errors let to at least 2 extra batters. Also, I gave him credit for 3 ERs, I don't think Colvin scores in the 7th if he is on 2nd instead of 3rd (throwing error on Posey)

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