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bradley emden
bradley emden

In relation to previous comments: I do not see how we are better defensively in centerfield this year. Beltran had a hand injury. Trying to play with a hand injury is almost an assured spiralling downward into serious injury. I wish he were not injured, but it seems to me he did the right thing for the team and his career. When he came back with his hand at 80 plus percent he was effective. Although one would like to have the team have a big say in a players medical decisions, the final decision needs to be between the player and his doctor. Look what happened to Noah Lowry while listening to the giants associated physicians. Some excellent points have been made in the original post and in the resultant comments.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
obsessivegiantscompulsive

Lastly, Giants fans worry about the LOOGY is just misplaced worry. You are not really worried about spending money on a LOOGY, you are worried only because the offense is not to your standards. As I've been showing for years now, when you have a great pitching staff and good fielding, that is, great defense, you don't need a great offense to win enough games to get into the playoffs regularly. You know how to use Pythagorean, input the Giants RA then input the RS for the NL average then for teams below average. See how many wins a below average offense can win with our defense. Now plug in ZIPS for our projected lineup (without Belt) and see how good the lineup is. It is not league worse, as it basically was last season. People seem to forget what a huge drop in offense it was to lose Posey and suddenly need to start Whiteside and Stewart. The Giants lost around 6-7 wins, based on Runs Created. And even though the projections for Melky and Pagan are not that great, the lineup, as is, should produce enough to win 90-95 games with our defense, because both should be huge improvements over what we got in LF and CF last season. The offense is fine. Could it be better? Of course. But at some point you have to make hard choices over what is more important. As is, the team should win 90+ games. Had they given up Lopez to get a better hitter, the starting pitchers will lose wins that they had before because, say, Okajima is leaking runs that Lopez would not have. And would the hitter necessarily improve the team? Is that hitter more likely to perform for the Giants than Lopez would have? People are crying about losing Beltran, but they have conveniently forgot that he went missing for many weeks when we needed him. He refused to come back and be less than 100% when the team could have used even an 80% Beltran. He was holding out to the end too, the Giants, from the impression I got from the media, finally got him to go out and play at less than 100%, but by then, it was too late, the D-backs had their surge to take the lead that they coasted into the playoffs with. People also forgot that Beltran went ahead and had surgery on his knee, without Mets team approval, that took him out of the early part of the next season, in fact, he ended up missing almost 100 games. Out of the last 6 seasons, he only has one where he played more than 150 games, 2008. He missed 240 games, averaging 122 games played during that stretch. His knees are not going to get better, they can only get worse, so he would have been a huge risk to not be there when we need him. For that, we would have lost a key component of our bullpen. No thank you.

foothillsryan
foothillsryan

I've got your back on this whole optimism thing. If everybody is healthy, they have a lineup that will move the line, move runners over, steal a bag, take an extra base, knock runners in, and knock it out of the park with runners on. Sure, disaster could strike again like it did in 2011 but Sandoval could be an MVP candidate, Posey could be solid and McCannesque from the right side, and Belt could put together a nice season batting fifth, taking walks, striking out and hitting 25 big flies. Between Huff and Schierholtz, one of them will hit will enough to be a solid 6 hitter. Melky could be very productive 7 hitter. Sanchez could hit .280 with a .320 OBP hit and run and move runners over, and Pagan could get on at a .340 clip and steal 30 bases. There's some offense up in there I tell you.

AndyG
AndyG

Those are all best-case scenarios. It is true that our lineup would need to be healthy but health does not mean that each player will perform to his full potential. Another big IF that very few people are mentioning is Vogelsong. Will we see the 2011 All-Star, or the 2000-10 perennial (even international) journeyman? I pencil the team in for 82-84 wins, though I obviously hope for more.

foothillsryan
foothillsryan

Every team is in the same boat. Do you think the Cardinals will get full seasons out of Beltran and Berkman? Holliday doesn't always stay on the field either. The Giants just really need to worry about the Diamondbacks. And maybe a little about the Dodgers. The Dbacks are due for regression from guys like Kennedy and pick a name. If Upton misses any time, they are toast.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
obsessivegiantscompulsive

Baseball is a game of playing the percentages, which is where sabermetrics has provided a lot of insight on. What sabermetrics don't seem to understand yet is reality. magowanite hit on that with his post about sure thing. I saw similar posts and comments like this when the Giants traded Joe Nathan. The sabermetric principle on that is that relievers are fungible and easily replaceable. It took a long while for the Giants to find his replacements in Brian Wilson and Sergio Romo. I don't see how Okajima is an object lesson in not paying $4M for a proven reliever like Lopez. Okajima is being paid that little because he did that little the past two seasons. What happens when it is May and Okajima is still performing poorly? Or mid-season? You can't just go out and buy yourself a usable LOOGY, you have to trade prospects to try to find one. And as we all know, not all trades work out, so you might have to burn through at least a couple of semi-prospects in order to find your LOOGY. Meanwhile, most contending teams have more problems than just their LOOGY, they have other needs. So you can't just be burning semi-prospects in search of a LOOGY, you have to make hard choices of what you will improve and what you will let fester. People forget but in 2008, both Lincecum and Cain lost a lot of games because the relievers could not hold the game and blown wins that the two had. Shankbone reminded people that the two of them lost up to 10 wins that season, which is what drove the Giant to acquire Affeldt. The reality is that while LOOGYs and relievers can be found relatively easily, whether from other teams or your own farm system, the clock is ticking on your team's capability of making the playoffs that season. Can you spare the 2-4-6 weeks it takes (and the prospects it may take) to find your replacement reliever? You may find that reliever easily but in the meanwhile, your current bullpen has blown 3-4 wins for you and you are no longer competing. That is what the $4M is buying. This saber-logic that replacing failures is easy is very prevalent, and it affects proper prospect handling as well. Top prospects are never sure things. Installing them as the starter when you are trying to win is playing Russian Roulette with your chances of winning that season. If they fail (like Andy Marte and that SD sure thing, Sean Burroughs, did), then you suddenly is short one starter and need to trade for one, which is very expensive early in the season. Which means you just blown that season. Baseball is like an ocean liner. It is not like you can turn it around immediately. By the time do you, you are miles away from where you are hoping to get to, with the change of direction. Once the season is trashed, you have to wait another year to try to do something, it is not like simulation baseball where you can run your 1,000,000 seasons and see how a strategy plays out. The reality is that as a GM, you must try to mitigate your risk of problems for that season by planning for it pre-season, not in-season where you can only react. Lastly, Giants fans worry about the LOOGY is just misplaced worry. You are not really worried about spending money on a LOOGY, you are worried only because the offense is not to your standards. As I've been showing for years now, when you have a great pitching staff and good fielding, that is, great defense, you don't need a great offense to win enough games to get into the playoffs regularly. You know how to use Pythagorean, input the Giants RA then input the RS for the NL average then for teams below average. See how many wins a below average offense can win with our defense. Now plug in ZIPS for our projected lineup (without Belt) and see how good the lineup is. It is not league worse, as it basically was last season. People seem to forget what a huge drop in offense it was to lose Posey and suddenly need to start Whiteside and Stewart. The Giants lost around 6-7 wins, based on Runs Created. And even though the projections for Melky and Pagan are not that great, the lineup, as is, should produce enough to win 90-95 games with our defense, because both should be huge improvements over what we got in LF and CF last season. The offense is fine. Could it be better? Of course. But at some point you have to make hard choices over what is more important. As is, the team should win 90+ games. Had they given up Lopez to get a better hitter, the starting pitchers will lose wins that they had before because, say, Okajima is leaking runs that Lopez would not have. And would the hitter necessarily improve the team? Is that hitter more likely to perform for the Giants than Lopez would have?

oldjacket
oldjacket

Cliff Notes: 1) Relievers are harder to find than you think, because when the Giants traded away the second best reliever of the decade, they had a hard time replacing him. 2)Using young players as position players is bad, because they might suck. 3)The Giants don't need a good offense, but the offense is good enough to win 90 to 95 games anyway. 4) Lopez - Okajima > Some FA position player - Hypothetical FA

rog61
rog61

5) anyone who disagrees with me: a) doesn't get it; b) forgets something; c) is biased. It is not possible to have a valid counterpoint view.

Paapfly
Paapfly

I copied this comment and pasted it into word. When I used the feature Word Count, my computer crashed.

marcellosfg
marcellosfg

I only read your first paragraph because, obviously, but explain how Lopez is a sure thing.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
obsessivegiantscompulsive

So why is this being held for approval while my other comment went in immediately?

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

Because you wrote a book.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

Yeah, if you're a Wordpress.com user, then you should be able to post right through the moderation thingy. Sorry if it's giving you troubles, ID is so-so at comment moderation.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
obsessivegiantscompulsive

Maybe that is it, I am logged in via WordPress. The system also stopped me from posting my follow-up comment, saying that I had logged out, even though I had just posted the above comment. I had to refresh the screen, then re-log back into Wordpress.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

And I really don't know why -- did you log in with another account? If you're using your Intense Debate login it should go right through.

AndyG
AndyG

I'm not so quick to judge the contract so negatively (I am much more frustrated by the Affeldt signing) and here's why... If you want to go on the going rate for WAR, Lopez' contract seems about right. Except for a 2009 campaign in which he logged only 11 innings, Lopez has averaged about one WAR for the last four seasons he's pitched, and if the going rate for WAR is about $4.5-5MM, then the contract is fair. Okajima himself was making nearly $3MM after three impressive seasons averaging about 2WAR/season, and was most likely in line for the big bucks before his numbers dipped sharply in 2010 and then (I'm assuming) he got hurt in 2011. Of course, someone who has followed his career more closely than I have might have a better understanding of why he's a good comparison to Lopez. But as WAR goes, the contract is not ridiculous, though considering its $4.25MM for a guy who will give us maybe 50-60 innings, on a team strapped for cash because of bad contracts, this is definitely a risk.

Shankbone
Shankbone

Good for the Yanks, finally getting somebody to keep poor Boone Logan company.

magowanite
magowanite

You pay the big money for a sure thing.

marcellosfg
marcellosfg

Then you find out "sure thing" and "pitcher" don't go together.