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Romodonkulous
Romodonkulous

Aside from what we gave up, my biggest disappointment stems from the lack of Ronny Paulino in this deal. That just seems like a natural inclusion, if one is already bubble-wrapping a talent like Wheeler for shipment. Would strapping Paulino to the package have taken something else on the G's behalf to get that done? Sure...but the leverage of dangling Wheeler SHOULD have put Sabean in the position to acquire Paulino for a fairly modest additional sum. On the whole, I'm somewhat on the fence about this deal...had Paulino been included, the justification would have been a much easier to distinguish.

nogoodtomedead
nogoodtomedead

As excited as I am to have Beltran I would have rather have held off on this trade. I think winning championships is a crap-shoot in any sport, and while I appreciate the organization's effort in wanting to defend its title I just hate the idea of going all in on a season. I think you build teams to be competitive over a period of time-once they get into the playoffs anything can happen. Conservatively- the Giants are entering a 5-6 year window, probably longer but lets just call it that. Beltran doesn't cover up the other holes in the line-up. I would rather they just accepted that the team was snake-bit this year, and over the next couple years when Posey is back (since it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't return to form until 2013) and Huff and Rowand are off the books, and Belt has developed, to worry about championships then. Wheeler would have been a nice cheap way of adding depth to the starting pitching.

Josh F
Josh F

The silver lining to how bad the Giants are at catcher is that it should be possible to grab a mild upgrade off the waiver wire.

Josh
Josh

Given that we now have something of a surplus in the outfield, what are the chances we see some of our current outfielders leaving in trades, possibly for an upgrade at catcher?

LeviDavis
LeviDavis

Our current outfielders have little to no trade value. Not that they are worthless players; just not the kind anyone seeks in a trade.

oldjacket
oldjacket

You guys have pretty much got it. Beltran's a five to ten run improvement at this stage of the season, depending on who he takes at-bats from. The Giants being the Giants, that can make a lot of difference. It seems like C or SS should have been the cheaper place to upgrade, but maybe there was just nothing there. They probably think less of Wheeler than we previously thought. Who knows if that's a correct assessment, though. There have been times when Bumgarner's stock has been pretty low over the last few years, and it would have been foolish to pronounce him done after those. Doesn't this now make not trading for JJ Hardy the biggest mistake of the offseason?

LeviDavis
LeviDavis

Wheeler will probably end up a pretty good pitcher, but the Giants wanted to win now, and there is definitely value in that. On catchers, more than one GM has called the catcher market dead or non-existent (according to MLBTraderumors), so while it shouldn't be hard to improve on Whiteside/Stewart, the Giants are apparently not the onlt ones trying. The bigger mistake seems to not be their failure to land a catcher before the deadline, but rather the poor decision to go into the season with Whiteside as the backup.

Curtis
Curtis

One thing everyone is overlooking. At the very very worst, aside from the fact they desperately needed a 3rd hitter, this is a blocker. Sure would have sucked if the Dbacks, Phillies or Braves would have landed Beltran. We surely wouldn't have been saying, "YES, they traded Julio Teheran, they are screwed 4 years from now!" We would have been saying, "Darn, our chances of repeat just took a huge hit." And I for one would have been bummed big time. I love the trade, even if Wheeler in the off chance reaches that ceiling of being a solid 3rd starter. You gotta go for it when the opportunity presents itself.

Rory Paap
Rory Paap

It's a good point. But the third-starter ceiling is incorrect. His ceiling is a No.-1 starter.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

You guys both beat me to it. Wheeler's ceiling is a 2 or a 1.

LeviDavis
LeviDavis

Wheeler's ceiling is much higher than third starter. The reason trading him is an acceptable move is he is so far from that ceiling and continuing to exhibit control issues. He could end up an ace, never make the big leagues or anywhere in-between, but nobody is putting a third starter ceiling on him now.

@paapfly
@paapfly

What I believe allowed the Giants to rationalize this move the most was two things. The first is the obvious fact that they were desperate for offense. Revelatory stuff. The second, I think anyway, is not that the Giants believed his ceiling had lowered, but rather the probability of him reaching it had decreased by some measure. I don't know by how much, and I don't think you can measure it, but I do think the Giants felt it. He's 21, he's in a High-A, he has a ton of talent, but he's not been a strike thrower in his young minor league career and he's by no means a top-of-the-rotation slam dunk. The Giants have a sort of window here, a chance to get as close to punching their ticket to the playoffs as you can get, and then to compete when they get there. No team has won back-to-back titles in the NL since '75/'76. It's hard not to respect that they recognize that, and that they're willing to make some tough decisions to try to make it happen.

@paapfly
@paapfly

On the Bumgarner versus Wheeler stuff, I thought I'd provide some additional information and let people decide for themselves. And, I agree with Chris in that I think the Giants were willing to move Wheeler more because they REALLY WANTED Beltran than because their eval's on Wheeler dipped, though they well may have SOME. Bumgarner is actually only 9 months older than Wheeler. 9 months. That's it. I think they use July 31 as the cutoff, so Bum's "age-18 season" was spent in Low-A, while Wheeler was "20" in Low-A. The difference is actually like 15 months, not two years. By the time Bumgarner was 20, he was already pitching well in the majors. Just after turning 21, he was dominating one of the ALs best lineups in the World Series. So ya, Bumgarner is the exception, not the rule.

Robert Haymond
Robert Haymond

No matter how good Zach may turn out to be, we needed a hitter of Beltran's stature and, what's more, we got him. And if Beltran does play up to his capabilities, we are far more likely to go deeper into the playoffs. The Mets were dealing and this was the time to trade. As to next year, think of it this way: If Carlos likes San Francisco, he's a lot more likely to stand by us when contract negotiations come up. It's unlikely he would require as much. As for San Francisco, a rational evaluation can be made as to his future worth and our need. And we will have the inside track.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

>> If Carlos likes San Francisco, he's a lot more likely to stand by us when contract negotiations come up. It's unlikely he would require as much Two things: 1) How far down the road do you want to go with a 34-year-old player (albiet still pretty good) with an injury history and 2) Scott Boras is his agent. No matter how much Carlos enjoys his time in SF, he'll listen to all offers on the FA market.

@paapfly
@paapfly

I'll dive in here... I wouldn't want to go too far down the road with Beltran. I think one year would be fine, two years would be close to pushing it, especially depending on the per-year demands. That said, I don't exactly expect a home-town discount, but I wouldn't expect Boras to swing for the moon, either. I'm struggling to find an example, but I do feel that Boras has backed off some for those players he represents that are getting their last contract, their contract after their BIG CONTRACT. These players want to go out gracefully, I would think. If that makes sense. That might mean a reasonable contract in a place he enjoys. I guess we'll see.

Tim
Tim

I like this trade (for this season) because I think it upgrades us at both corner OF positions. Nate can't hit lefties, Ross really doesn't hit righties well. But as a platoon this year, they'd be 291/348/464. That's Hunter Pence territory (with better D), and strengthens our bench. We can upgrade catcher on the waiver wire.

@crazycrabbers
@crazycrabbers

I've gone through many different emotions on this trade. My first reaction was "Oh No, not Wheeler" followed by the joy of thinking of a real hitter. After thinking for a little while I was on to "this is a little but of an overpay but I am still happy". Then I took the time to think through the implications and thought that the Giants are overvaluing what Beltran can do or they are getting a crappy return on a top pitching prospect. I was bummed again. Then I thought about the hitting and I cared less. Then I thought that if he puts it together for 2.5 months we can go buy some international prospects to restock and re-sign all the starting pitchers with a full stadium buying repeat champion sweatshirts. My emotions change by the minute.