Article written by

Baseball writer... sort of.

16 comments
Otis Anderson
Otis Anderson

I think the fun upshot of all this is that in a year's time the Giants offensive parts have gone from interchangeably bad to interchangeably good (or at least averagish).

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

Points? I think you meant to say goalruns.

Rory Paap
Rory Paap

I don't know how long the season is, I've never actually watched a game. Actually, how long are the games even? Excellent points, westcoastbias.

marcello
marcello

The games are 3 quarters long. Winner is decided by who has the most points.

westcoastbias
westcoastbias

I agree that Schierholtz should get the majority of playing time while Ross is out. You make good points. However, I think Ross is better than a "player teetering between a starter and a very useful fourth outfielder" for a playoff team. I would guess, in 2011 (and assuming he doesn't get more seriously hurt), Ross will outperform 20-25 third outfielders in WAR. There just aren't many good third outfielders in baseball. These are some of the third outfielders around the National League. Gomez in Milwaukee, Berkman in St. Louis, Fukudome in Chicago, Gibbons in LA, McLouth in Atlanta, and Ibanez in Philly. All of those teams are hoping to be playoff teams, and they all have third outfielders worse than Cody Ross.

westcoastbias
westcoastbias

I didn't even mention Gomes in Cincy. Last season, Ross's 2.2 Fangraphs WAR was better than every playoff team's third outfielder with the exception of the Yankees and Rays.

dillonwut
dillonwut

No offense but you seriously took the time to write this? Ross is out for 3 weeks... Do you even know how long the season is?

marcello
marcello

It's almost like you missed the entire point of the article...

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

My very brief thoughts on the Ross injury The not so bad category = if Schierholtz starts in RF with Torres in CF and Burrell/Huff in LF. The holy god why category = if Rowand plays CF with Torres moved to RF and Burrell/Huff in LF. For a team like the Giants that gives us a huge amount of flyballs, any OF configuration that doesn't have Torres in CF is a bad one. I don't think Nate will ever hit much, but his defense and baserunning are nice enough to make him a good fill-in.

jason51
jason51

dont forget about mark derosa. he is healthy now and can play right field which would probably be better than huff playing right. he might not have the range schierholtz does but does provide more offense

His Thrillness
His Thrillness

I think you're devaluing the prevalence of 2.2 WAR players. Heck, 1.0 WAR players are not nearly as plentiful as people assume (http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/11/16/1813082/how-common-is-a-one-win-above-replacement-player) It's not that I necessarily disagree with you, with regards to Schierholtz being a viable replacement for a couple of weeks, just that I think the drop-off is likely to be a little greater than nil. And I totally agree that Rownads offers below replacement level value, especially in CF. But Ross will be missed. Also, I'm okay with the water buffalo defense if they gain enough value on offense. Because while the Giants are a team that gives up a high percentage of flyballs, they lead the NL in K's last year as a staff and will probably do so again this year. Consequently, fewer balls in play, leaves fewer opportunities for errors. Also, Huff and Burrell catch what they can get to, it's just that they don't get to a lot of balls. Given that even advanced stats still don't tell us how hard the ball is hit, I feel that the Giants give up a lot of lazy flyballs, further negating their poor defense, or rather lack of range.

Rory Paap
Rory Paap

Oh I don't know if I was devaluing a two win player. My point is that Schierholtz is a one win player if he plays every day, and that's if he doesn't improve. Even if Ross is gone ALL year, I think the Giants lose a win or so, worst-case scenario. And I think there's a non-zero chance his hitting improves some. I also don't think baserunning is truly included in the FanGraphs WAR, correct me if I'm wrong. Schierholtz has been worth half a win in about half a season of playing time in 2009 and '10. If we give him a little credit for the running, maybe his WAR is actually a full win, two if he plays full time. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. And there's a good chance he'll never hit, like Chris said. But I think maybe Nate's a closer player to Ross than it seems, in terms of value, and he's got upside which neither Ross (and especially Rowand) have.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

I *thought* that the only baserunning that FG's WAR takes into account is SB/CS which is very rudimenarty. However, the FG WAR page says: "3. Baserunning: rWAR includes this, while fWAR doesn’t." (rWAR is BB-Ref's WAR, fWAR is Fangraphs), so I'm not sure now. But, it seems clear that fWAR doesn't include much, if any, baserunning component. BP's baserunning metric (which makes the most sense to me) had Nate as a +1.4 run baserunner last year in limited playing time. That's pretty decent. He was a +1.9 runner in 2009. I could see Nate being anywhere from a +1 to a +4 runner depending on playing time.

Rory Paap
Rory Paap

Good information, Chris. That doesn't surprise me.