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nate
nate

Yeah, 2002 Ellis Burks was awesome. Actually that entire 2000 offense was amazing, if that offense could have played with the 2010 pitching staff, I could see 120 wins as a possibility.

nate
nate

Er, make that 2000 Ellis Burks

djiang83
djiang83

Great article first of all. I think if anything, this is empirical proof of what many of us have known about Sabean all along. Sabean prefers to fill position slots with established veterans, even if they are slightly past their prime. The farm system is primarily used to develop pitchers. I'm also not surprised at the futility of the 24-26 age group. It's rare to see a player at that age being productive to begin with and any who do are probably higher caliber prospects of which the Giants are not well known for developing outside of pitching. Pedro Feliz and Rich Aurilia are probably the best position players developed by the Giants the past dozen years or so (pre-Buster Posey). In between, the landscape is littered with the likes of Damon Minor and Yorvit Torrealba. The point being I'm hardly surprised that the WAR for the 24-26 age range is so low given the lackluster young talent Sabean's cultivated over the years for position players. What I would love to see is how well Sabean measures up at each age group compared to his colleagues from around the league. Only by comparing his WAR for, say, the 33-35 age group to that of other GMs can we get a clear idea of how good of a GM he is at picking up veterans. Perhaps a thought for part 2?

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

This is for Otis -- the 24-26 player group sorted by best WAR. <pre>Name WAR Age Year Bill Mueller# 2.7 26 1997 Bobby Estalella 2.5 25 2000 Marvin Benard* 2 25 1996 Rich Aurilia 2 26 1998 Bill Mueller# 1.8 25 1996 Rajai Davis 1.2 26 2007 Rich Aurilia 1 25 1997 Yorvit Torrealba 0.9 24 2003 Ramon Martinez 0.9 26 1999 Nate Schierholtz* 0.8 25 2009 Travis Ishikawa* 0.7 25 2009 Todd Linden# 0.6 26 2006 Yorvit Torrealba 0.6 26 2005 Bobby Estalella 0.4 26 2001 Fred Lewis* 0.4 26 2007 Rich Aurilia 0.3 24 1996 Travis Ishikawa* 0.3 24 2008 Nate Schierholtz* 0.2 24 2008 Yorvit Torrealba 0.2 25 2004 Daniel Ortmeier# 0.2 26 2007 Nate Schierholtz* 0.2 26 2010 Matt Downs 0.1 26 2010 John Bowker* 0 26 2010 Travis Ishikawa* 0 26 2010 Marvin Benard* -0.1 26 1997 Todd Linden# -0.2 25 2005 Lance Niekro -0.2 26 2005 Kevin Frandsen -0.3 24 2006 Edwards Guzman* -0.5 24 2001 Marcus Jensen# -0.5 24 1997 Dave McCarty -0.5 26 1996 John Bowker* -0.6 24 2008 Ivan Ochoa -0.7 25 2008 Emmanuel Burriss# -0.9 24 2009 Kevin Frandsen -0.9 25 2007 Eugenio Velez# -1.3 26 2008 Pedro Feliz -1.6 26 2001 </pre> A lot of 'meh' on this list. And, I know you'll enjoy that Velez was the 2nd worst player in this age bucket.

Softball guy
Softball guy

The one factor that no can account for is the effects of steroids during the Sabaen era. With the obvious use of steroids in the Giants clubhouse in the late 90s-early 2000s the positive effects of older players during this period is suspect. With this likely false positive the chances of older players showing the same level of success in the future is severely limited and could lead to some bad decisions on free agents (which I think we have seen about baseball these past few years). I'm not saying any of those on this list were users, just that we'll never know and that possibility exists. Loved Burks.

Roger
Roger

I'm surprised Grissom wasn't on that list. Guess he was older when he came here? /checks. Yup. 36. Bet his 36 year provides one of the better ones we got in that bracket.

Otis Anderson
Otis Anderson

Interesting. I always figured that Sabean was actually a little better than the average GM at picking old guys.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

I really should run the numbers with the same age buckets against the rest of the league. Because, I have no idea if a 1.5 average WAR for 33-35 year-old players is a good thing -- or not. Intuitively, it seems pretty good to me. He's hit some absolute homeruns in that bracket, though. Kent, Burks, Huff, etc.

Liem
Liem

So I shouldn't expect much from Tejada (age 37)?

Giant among Angels
Giant among Angels

This was a very interesting post. I am curios as to why the number of players in the 24-26 range is so small and the 21-23 is so much larger. Maybe due to the thought that Sabes doesn't give the young players much of an opportunity if they don't come out of the gates swinging? I too really enjoyed watching Burks and Javier, especially Burks.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

>> I am curios as to why the number of players in the 24-26 range is so small and the 21-23 is so much larger. I think you might be misreading the graph. If you're talking about the number of players in those categories, that's represented by the dashed-line; the line does go upward around the 24-26 bucket. That's most likely because the number of player that are in the majors and getting at least 80 PAs between 21-23 is small. The bars represent average WAR, the dashed-line is total player count in that bucket.

Otis Anderson
Otis Anderson

It's still curious. Why have our 24-26 year olds sucked so much?

Giant among Angels
Giant among Angels

Yeah--- Reading comprehension fail on my behalf. This makes sense now. -thanks