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JWTP
JWTP

Good research, I certainly thought to myself there couldn't be too many catcher ROYs in history, quickly remembered Soto and Piazza, then wondered how wrong my initial reaction was. You touch on it a little within each player/season description but it'd be nice to see how these catchers progressed through their careers; if this is any indication, it's still pretty hard to see how well Buster will do over his career, you can just about squeeze the Grand Canyon between Bench and Benito if you account for steroid use, at least on the offensive side.

Roger
Roger

Looking back it's a little strange that the Dodgers were able to make so little of a historic influx of young cheap talent in the early 90s. From '92 to 96 Dodgers won the ROY in an unprecedented 5 straight seasons, including one honest to goodness 1st ballot HOFer as you said in Piazza. While the other 4 weren't that great, Eric Karos, Raul Mondesi, and Hideo Nomo certainly represented a core of a good cheap talented team (the last ROY in the streak was Todd Hollandsworth). At the beginning of that streak they still had a few of their '88 championship team around (including Orel and Ramon Martinez) And over the same period of time they developed several other very good pitchers, including Chan Ho Park, Pedro Astacio, Darren Dreifort, and of course Pedro Martinez, whose trade may be the key to this story. And yet their period of success with this group was extremely short and limited. They were in 1st place at the time of the '94 strike and would finish in 1st in the strike shortened '95 season. And then again in '96 when this group hit their high water mark with 90 wins. In both the '95 and '96 postseasons they were swept in the first round of the playoffs, and after that they started sliding backwards: 88 wins, 83, 77 by which time Piazza was gone, too. Together that group won two division titles, a high of 90 wins, and 0 post-season games. Kind of amazing. One footnote to Pudge's rookie year (OPS+162!), like Buster, Fisk was the best offensive player on a team in a pennant race that went down to the final day of the season. It's often forgotten that 1972 was the very first strike year. The first week or so of the season was eliminated by a work stoppage, and when the players came back, MLB didn't know exactly what to do with the schedule, as not all teams had lost the same number of games. In the end they decided to do nothing, and consequently the Red Sox, having lost one game more to the strike that Detroit had, ended up finishing .5 game out of a division title. They were the first team to finish out of the playoffs by less than a full game since the 1908 Cleveland Spiders (oddly before that season the NL had ruled that all rainouts must be made up if they affected the pennant race, but the AL had declined to do the same and 6 months later that decision cost Cleveland a chance at the title).

His Thrillness
His Thrillness

Thanks Chris, but the issue I see with this is that WAR is still a counting stat and I fall in to the camp that Rookie season's are based more on the production within the time period a player is up, than handing out points for playing a longer rookie season. That being said Piazza and Fisk's rookie seasons were absolutely insane and it really wouldn't change much about the list except to bump Posey ahead of Soto. It's an impressive list though, since a lot of ROY's go on to do nothing, to see that all of these guys enjoyed HOF or near HOF careers with the exception of Soto and Williams, but still 6 out of 8 is pretty impressive for the position and is a good indicator of things to come in the future for Posey, or at least I hope.

Chris Quick
Chris Quick

It seems like a lot of these awards are pretty subjective. But, you're right that WAR is going to give more credit to the player who, well, did more. It's not Posey's fault that management didn't call him up sooner, but we also don't know how he would have fared in the extra ~100-ish PAs if given the chance. Therefore, I have a hard time giving him credit for anything he didn't do. Soto WAS more valuable to the Cubs because he put up similar numbers in an extra 120 PAs compared to Posey. If you want to look at just the time that the rookie was playing, that's fine if it's your standard. I probably side with total production, but it's an interesting question.

hairball
hairball

Yeah, Piazza and Fisk were in a different league. That's how I felt when I saw Lincecum in the minors. I think it's how a lot of folks felt when they saw Bonds. Rare talents indeed.

www.PaapFly.com
www.PaapFly.com

Really enjoyed this. Piazza and Fisk: beasts from the beginning.