Hey, it looks like the Giants offered Rich Aurilia a minor league deal similar to the one that Juan Uribe got. Fringe utility middle infielders? Gotta catch’em all.
For now, one development to share: Sabean said the Giants made Rich Aurilia an offer for a non-guaranteed contract similar to what they gave Juan Uribe ($1 million if he makes the team, plus incentives).
Interesting. As much as I love Rich — He was a Good Giant(tm) — and his ability to hit LHP, I like Uribe’s positional flexibility a little more. Also, according to Baggs, the Phillies are interested in Aurilia. I’m really not sure how deep the Phillies are at second base, but Aurilia could see some playing time there during Chase Utley’s recovery from hip surgery. Aurilia has played 106 career games at second base and could probably do well enough there as a temporary starter.
Staying in the infield, the Giants have also offered Joe Crede a 1-year deal. The financial terms of the deal are undisclosed, but Crede is apparently — hold off on your laughter — looking for a $7M deal.
From SFGiants.com:
The CBS television affiliate in San Francisco reported on Saturday that Crede had received the offer, but did not go into contract details. Club officials could not be reached for comment, but there was no mention of an offer when general manager Brian Sabean talked to reporters during the Giants’ KNBR/Giants FanFest at AT&T Park.
Also, you’ve got to love Scott Boras and the things he says:
Joe Crede is seeking a base salary of closer to $7 million than $5 million, which could decrease the likelihood that the free agent third baseman lands with the Twins, the Star Tribune has learned.
This is in a market that may barely pay Adam Dun $7M per season. Honestly, I’m not shocked to see the Giants hit on Crede just a little. He’s got obvious ties with the Giants — Uribe, Rowand, and Ron Schueler — and I’m pretty sure that the team isn’t so comfortable with the idea of Pablo Sandoval playing over 100 games at third base in the major leagues.
Fun Fact: BB-Ref has Sandoval listed at 5’11″ and 245lbs. How many players with the same build — 5’11″ or less and 245lbs or more — have played at least 20 career games at third base?
Answer: None.
Though, I’m guessing that Miguel Cabrera might have came close to qualifying when he played third base. BB-Ref apparently hasn’t updated it’s player information for Miggy since 2003 as he’s listed at a laughable 185lbs — ESPN has him at 240 as does MLB.com. The point is that for player comps based on height and weight, you just don’t find 5’11″ 245lb guys playing much third base. Ever. In the history of baseball. And don’t forget that while Cabrera did play third base when he was larger, he was pretty brutal at times.
And finally, Andrew Baggarly has a really nice recap of Sabean’s State of the Team.
This question in particular shows why Crede might be on the G’s radar:
I asked Sabean about Sandoval’s defense at third. Sabean said he wasn’t concerned about the youngster’s ability to catch and throw. They’re unsure how much range he’ll have, though. And if it leaves something to be desired, that could lead to a greater concern: His lack of knowledge about major league hitters, and therefore, his relative inexperience positioning himself from pitch to pitch.
Great stuff from Baggs. Pitchers and catchers report in just three days. Yes.
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e: Ken Rosethal is reporting that Aurila has agreed to return to the Giants on a minor league deal. I’m not sure what to think. Do the Giants have the guts to actually send him to AAA to start the season if they have to? And if he makes the team, do they have the guts to not start him? H/T to Waxpack!
If the Giants sign Crede for $7 million, that’s probably going to upset a lot of people. I wouldn’t mind a signing for a few million less–his defensive upside seems pretty solid, although it’s questionable what he’s bringing offensively. As is, what’s your take on the Giants lineup going into this year? I think there’s potential—more than last year, at least—but only if certain contingencies fall into place, like Renteria being a solid contributor, Rowand bouncing back, Sandoval and Ishikawa coming through. Lot of question marks there.
@Wax
I’d be extremely surprised if Crede gets $7M for a 1-year deal. In this market, it’s probably not going to happen. I can see him signing for something like $3-4M with incentives based on playing time.
I can honestly take or leave Crede at this point but I don’t think Pablo is a viable option at third base. The more Pablo struggles defensively — as in, if he’s one of the worst defenders at third in the game — the more attractive Crede should be. And like I wrote in my ‘Pro Joe’ post, if Crede only lasts 400-ish PAs with the Giants, Sandoval could play third in a pinch.
The real loser if Crede comes on board is Ishikawa, as he’ll be moved to the bench or maybe even cut. But, I think if you’ve got a choice between Ishikawa and Sandoval at first base, you go with Sandoval every time. How much you like Joe Crede is probably proportional to how much you like Ishikawa. His volatile development path concerns me and I think his upside is pretty limited. So, off the top of my head, I don’t mind Crede.
RE: The lineup, yeah lots of question marks. I get a little scared when I think about Molina. He’s been fantastic but I keep expecting him to fall apart, but he’s proved me wrong at every step. Maybe he’ll do it for one more year. I think Renteria will be fine, hopefully an average hitter with a little less than average defense. I think Rowanad’s ‘bounce-back’ will be huge to this team if it happens. Not only offensively, but he’s got to play better defense in CF.
The hitting isn’t going to be what wins games for this team, hopefully the rotation and an improved bullpen is what carries us. But you’re correct that this lineup could break bad in a really awful way.
Waxpack: I can honestly say this is the most hopeful I have felt about a Giants squad in a number of years. My biggest fear is the management looks solely at the games back column and feels the need more Vet’s to make a push at the expense of the 2010 and on squads.
As for Crede I kind of hope he keeps on with his $7m demands for a few weeks. That way he is available once spring training is over and the Giants’ can use an option on a young player to open space for him if they feel they need to sign him.
Looks like Richie’s a Giant again: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/giants-to-sign.html
I’m assuming this nullifies the Crede talk. With Uribe in the picture and Aurilia in the background, there seems to be almost a surplus at 3B.
Is it entirely possible Aurilia spends some of the season with Fresno? I often go see the Grizzlies when they come up to play the Rainiers, and it would be WEIRD to see him in that setting.
Hmm, not sure why I had to approve your comment Waxpack, but thanks for the link. I’ll update the entry.
Yeah, I’d rather Aurilia went somewhere else and honestly, I’m not sure if this really affects Joe Crede.
Good info at The Splash regarding Crede: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=22&entry_id=35585
“I have been told the Giants are not counting on a deal with Crede and expect to move forward with Travis Ishikawa or John Bowker at first base and Pablo Sandoval at third, unless something else comes along. General manager Brian Sabean said Saturday he explored some trades last week that went nowhere.
One report had Crede seeking $7 million for one season. If the Giants did make an offer, I’d guess the guarantee was for less than half that. The Twins are after Crede, too.”
Schulman also noted that the Giants were also in on Wigginton until he signed with the Orioles for $3M per year, so one would think the Giants offer for Crede is somewhere in that range, since Wigginton is better offensively and worse defensively, and the Giants lost the bidding.
And I would bet the Twins will get Crede before us, they have Buscher (former Giants prospect) and he was horribly offensively for them and yet they played him significantly in 2008, so I would bet the Twins would be willing to beat any bid by the Giants, particularly if they are shooting for the $3-4M range for salary.
Crede should be getting somewhere around what Feliz got last year, they have basically been equivalent players offensively and defensively. Feliz got 2 years, $8.5M. With this tough market, Crede would be lucky to get something in that range, basically between what Wigginton got and Feliz got.
Lincecum was also a player whose body type don’t fit historic trends either, so I don’t think that’s going to bother the Giants as much as what Sandoval actually does on the field. Seeing how he evaded two tags with perfect slides within a week of each other, I have to say that Sandoval is pretty agile for his size, his size belies what he can do physically.
I hope the Giants give him spring training to show what he can do, recent news said that he has been taking grounders (1,000?) daily from a Giants infield coach all winter long, so hopefully that will get him ready enough to take the position.
@OGC
RE: Pablo, I don’t think you make any comparisons between him and Lincecum, unless in an extreme abstract case of how people evaluate players based on bodies.
I also think that Pablo’s ‘quickness/agility’ is often over-stated. He’s not Molina, but he’s not twinkle toes either.
Everything that the Giants have been trying to do with third base this offseason says that they aren’t that comfortable with Pablo playing at a position that he hasn’t (outside of 80 innings last season) played since 2006. And in ’06, he played something like 20-30 games and that was it. I haven’t seen one scout say that he can play third base. Everyone seems to think he’s a first baseman or a catcher.
He could surprise us all and play third base adequately, but I think expecting him to is bordering on the side of wishcasting. The Giants have been linked with a lot of third basemen this offseason. That to me suggests — and with the Sabes quote — that internally the team might have some reservations. Time will tell.
I guess we read different scouting reports. The McKamey prospect book has had him as a platoon 1B/3B for the prior two seasons. While he says Sandoval has below average defense at 3B, he also still lists him as average defensively, suggesting that he’s most probably adequate there defensively, just not average.
Baseball America, in their last report on him (2006 though) said “Defensively, he got off to a solid start at third base, and he has the tools to stick there. His hands and arm are solid-average for the hot corner, though his range is somewhat limited. He’s athletic despite a pudgy 5-foot-11 frame that never will look good in a uniform. If he stays in shape and grows into third base with experience, Sandoval could develop into an average defender…”
I’m talking extreme abstract case, of course, Sandoval has been described as athletic in prospect books I’ve seen. And again, I’m going by his two amazing slides to score, few baserunners are capable of doing that period, and he executed both beautifully. Small samples, but I don’t think many players could ever do that twice, let alone within a week of each other. But that’s my opinion.
I take the Giants rumored actions differently. Sure, they have been approaching 3B more than 1B, but really, on a cost and years of contract basis, 3B is where the Giants conceivably could do something. Teixeira was never in the budget and none of the other guys I see on the list are that good defensively and/or offensively. Crede is very good defensively, while Wigginton is very good offensively. I don’t see anybody on the free agent list that good in either dimension and in this $3-5M price range.
Thus, getting a 1B in this market would lead to reduced defense at 1B and potentially 3B with Sandoval, with not much of an uptick in offense over Ishikawa. However, Crede would improve our 3B defense greatly, and Crede/Sandoval offensively and defensively is better than Sandoval/Ishikawa most probably. Adding Wigginton would reduce defense a little bit, but greatly improve offense.
3B is where the Giants could conceivably improve their 1B/3B combination at their price range, whereas 1B didn’t have anybody who is an upgrade at that price range. Sean Casey? Aaron Boone? Tony Clark? Daryl Ward? Kevin Millar is the only one who would kind of make sense and that’s probably why he’s the only 1B I saw in the rumor mills. And Giambi with his steroid and Balco connection would not be an option.
Of course there is wishcasting. There is wishcasting with any prospect who was never considered a top prospect, who come out of the blue like Sandoval did. Base on what I’ve read, it is not totally out of the question, there are obstacles, but not insurmountable ones, but we won’t know unless we try him out there. The Giants appear willing to try him out, but if they can improve the club overall, then they are going to pursue the deal. That’s what it seems to me, at least.
On one hand, Uribe, Aurilia, Crede, Etc all make me feel as though Sabean has learned from the Bocock experience last season and does not want to go into ST w/o a credible backup for every position. I would rather a struggling Sandoval be replaced by Uribe than Rohlinger.
On the other hand, I’m deathly afraid that Sabean is reverting to his veteran loving ways and is intending on starting an Aurilia/Uribe/Renteria/Crede infield w/ the youngsters backing them up.
That would be a travesty. The only places where we saw significant playing time given to young players last year were those where there was no veteran option (Left field, 1st base, 2nd base post Durham, SS pre Vizquel). I’m very worried that if Bochy has the veteran option on the roster, he will use it extensively.
I would be more comfortable if Bochy’s hand were forced to play Frandsen/Ishikawa/Sandoval etc due to no other choice.
But then again, if any of that crew doesn’t work out or gets injured, we need backup options. Right now we have them. That seems on the surface an intelligent position to be in. I don’t trust Bochy, however.
I cannot imagine Aurilia playing AAA if he doesn’t make the 25 man. He will either be released to try to catch on somewhere else or retire.
@OGC
I don’t read McKamey or have his book, so I don’t know how well he’s respected in the scouting community but in the latest Top-11 Prospect list for the Giants Kevin Goldstein — who talks to many, many scouts — flat-out stated in his review that nobody thinks Pablo is a third baseman.
As for what BA is saying, that report was from 2006, that’s nearly three years ago. I wonder how much weight — if any — Pablo has put on since then? I have a BA subscription but I don’t have time at the moment to search their site for Sandoval.
I agree it appears that he’s got a lot of obstacles at third defensively. I just won’t be surprised if that on Opening Day someone else is playing the position.
@FWF
I’m not too worried about Aurilia but I think his signing means that he’ll make the team. I just can’t see the Giants sending him to Fresno to start the year. How Bochy decides to use him is probably going to be a source of frustration.