Comments on: Best and Worst Giants’ Defenders 2002-2008

By: luvinthislife

luvinthislife — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:34:32 +0000

Jack Clark has to be on any list of bad Giants defenders. He started out in the low minors as a third baseman, and anybody sitting in the stands in the vicinity of first base had to be alert anytime he fielded a ball. He truly had no idea where his throws were going. It was hilarious! Of course, he could absolutely rake at the plate, so they converted him to the outfield. Fans at every MLB park should have thanked them for that move, as it helped ensure their safety.

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:57:13 +0000

Yeah, true. After his first season I was pulling my hair out at times. He tied the NL for passed balls in 2007. He was better last year, though.

Matheny looked solid when he was here, good throwing arm, good ability to frame pitches, etc. Manwaring was solid, too. Before Matheny won the Gold Glove, Manwaring was the last Giants catch to bring home the gold.

edit: Also, I think I’d knock off Shawon on your list in favor of Omar. By the time he came to the Giants, he wasn’t much of a SS anymore. He started 78 games at SS in 1996. He was more of a PH/OF/1B player when he came back in 2001-2002. Omar was still a whiz during his years with the Giants. Probably the best ever defensive Giants SS.

By: MrLomez

MrLomez — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:54:45 +0000

Yeah, you’re probably right. I guess my thinking with Molina has to do with his “pitcher-handler” reputation. I’ve also never seen someone frame a pitch quite like Molina. He catches more balls in the heal and the very nose of his glove more than any guy I can remember.

But that’s sooo subjective. Catcher is easily the hardest position to evaluate.

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:47:41 +0000

@MrLomez

I like your list but I think I’d replace Molina with Matheny or Manwaring. Both are much better defenders in my opinion. Molina was better last year, but he seems to have really bad range at times. Especially when he was to go get a ball that’s up in the zone.

By: MrLomez

MrLomez — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:13:05 +0000

Darren Lewis’ streak of 938 chances without an error deserves some recognition. That’s just absurd.

Just because I’m bored. All-time Giants defensive team (note the obvious skew toward recent players):

C – Molina (stud)
1B – Snow (those numbers above can’t be right. Snow was a magician)
2B – Frank Frisch (supposedly was a beast,and I can’t think of anyone else)
3B – Matty Williams (pure nostalgia, gets the nod over Feliz)
SS – Shawon Dunston (what a fucking cannon!)
LF – Barry Lamar Bonds (noodle arm, but horribly underrated)
CF – Mays
RF – Winn (no one plays their park better than Winn plays The Phone)
P – Fat Freddy Fitzsimmons (see note on Frisch)

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:58:36 +0000

@Kenshin

Good point, if we added positional adjustments to our players, Omar would come out ahead because he’s competing against a much more athletic player group than guys like Randy Winn and Pedro were competing against.

It’s pretty amazing that even with his total collapse on offense, his defense still makes him a better than replacement level player.

By: kenshin

kenshin — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:54:56 +0000

I know this was not the thrust of your post, Chris, but if you adjust for position, Omar pretty clearly had the best defensive season.

By: daveinexile

daveinexile — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:51:21 +0000

Mark I will back you up on Thompson. I barely remember Titio Fuentes so I don’t count my memories of how good he was as reliable but I would say Robby was the best defensive second base man the Giants have had since Fuentes. The next guy on the list is not even close.

I will not even get started on Williams. He is tied with Willie Mac for my favorite all time Giant and I’m way too much fan to be allowed to comment much on him. Needless to say I think Mueller & Feliz had nothing on him defensively.

OCG & Mark thanks for the confirmation on Maddox. The memory can be funny thing after couple decades. I remember Willie Montnez be horrible at first. If it was not between his belt and his shoulders forget it. I think the Montenez think sums up nicely why I am happy to see a UZR stat, and Tango Tigers work, so readily available.

By: MarkOC

MarkOC — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:55:33 +0000

The Jeffrey “Hac-man” Leonard was a fine LF. Under-appreciated on some wretched teams. Robby Thompson was an excellent fielder in my (admittedly biased) memory. Mike Matheny was a joy to watch behind the plate–superb footwork, always balanced, great hands. Matt Williams had the same combo at 3B.

OF defense is indeed a Giants tradition. I remember in HS watching the Gary Matthews Sr.–Gary Maddox–Bobby Bonds trio. Those guys nailed everything.

I did see Dave Kingman play LF. Adam Dunn channels Dave Kingman.

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:57:23 +0000

@Paulie

I would have payed good money to watch Kingman play third. One of the weirdest baseball players ever. Had loads of talent.

Joe Poz has a fabulous recent article on him. Check it out if you haven’t already seen it, it’s a good read.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/joe_posnanski/12/02/dave.kingman/index.html

@Gigantor

Yeah, I was pretty surprised too. I never thought of Cruz as anything other than a below-average defender.