Comments on: Giant Questions or Rearranging Deck Chairs http://www.baycityball.com/2007/06/19/giant-questions-or-rearranging-deck-chairs/ Giants Baseball With a Side of STATS Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:42:29 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Chris http://www.baycityball.com/2007/06/19/giant-questions-or-rearranging-deck-chairs/comment-page-1/#comment-895 Chris Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:10:51 +0000 http://www.baycityball.com/2007/06/19/giant-questions-or-rearranging-deck-chairs/#comment-895 Hey Frank, I agree that just "playing the kids" isn't a cure all and has the ability to suck too. I noted that with Todd Linden as a example, sometimes the kids can perform just as bad as the veterans. This is why it's always been important to draft young players and not punt picks for Michael Tucker! I have mixed feelings on the "Stealth Rebuild" and the notion that Sabean has "totally rebuilt the staff". I think it's a combination of having a good draft pick (Cain) move through the system and make it to the majors. Luck out with the Lincecum pick because he was almost major league ready when he was picked. And over paying way too much for Zito. The rotation does look different from 2-3 years ago but I think this team panicked some with the loss of Schmidt that led them to pay way too much for Zito. The Morris signing is still pretty "meh" but he's pitched well this year after looking awful last year. But regardless of how it happened, the rotation looks alright for now. I like the teams depth of MI talent but most of it is still a bit away from the majors. It mostly seems to be in A+/AA but it is there. Hopefully Sanders, Schoop, Velez, Burris, etc. can all take development steps forward this year. And I disagree that rebuilding a team will take forever, some of the examples used to portray rebuilding in a negative light are from organizations who don't have the strongest track records as being quality organizations. KC and Pittsburgh aren't exactly the top of my list when I think about quality, smart, front offices. Look at what the Marlins did in 2005-2006. Because of salary constrictions, they dumped several of their high priced players (Mike Lowell, Luis Castillo, Carlos Delgado, etc) for young talent. You can make the argument that these players are better than anything that the Giants currently have, and that's partially true, but it shows that rebuilding can be done. The Marlins had a strong year in 2006, where they eventually faded but they have a young team that is exciting to watch and a big part of that team is made up of a rebuild. And Sabean may be ahead of the "bloggers" but I don't agree with keep giving him the benefit of the doubt after 2 straight losing seasons, soon the be 3. He's been a great GM for the Giants during his tenure and I appreciate that but I wonder if it's time for some new blood? And for the record, I don't play Roto at all. Hey Frank,

I agree that just “playing the kids” isn’t a cure all and has the ability to suck too. I noted that with Todd Linden as a example, sometimes the kids can perform just as bad as the veterans. This is why it’s always been important to draft young players and not punt picks for Michael Tucker!

I have mixed feelings on the “Stealth Rebuild” and the notion that Sabean has “totally rebuilt the staff”. I think it’s a combination of having a good draft pick (Cain) move through the system and make it to the majors. Luck out with the Lincecum pick because he was almost major league ready when he was picked. And over paying way too much for Zito. The rotation does look different from 2-3 years ago but I think this team panicked some with the loss of Schmidt that led them to pay way too much for Zito. The Morris signing is still pretty “meh” but he’s pitched well this year after looking awful last year. But regardless of how it happened, the rotation looks alright for now.

I like the teams depth of MI talent but most of it is still a bit away from the majors. It mostly seems to be in A+/AA but it is there. Hopefully Sanders, Schoop, Velez, Burris, etc. can all take development steps forward this year.

And I disagree that rebuilding a team will take forever, some of the examples used to portray rebuilding in a negative light are from organizations who don’t have the strongest track records as being quality organizations. KC and Pittsburgh aren’t exactly the top of my list when I think about quality, smart, front offices. Look at what the Marlins did in 2005-2006. Because of salary constrictions, they dumped several of their high priced players (Mike Lowell, Luis Castillo, Carlos Delgado, etc) for young talent. You can make the argument that these players are better than anything that the Giants currently have, and that’s partially true, but it shows that rebuilding can be done.

The Marlins had a strong year in 2006, where they eventually faded but they have a young team that is exciting to watch and a big part of that team is made up of a rebuild.

And Sabean may be ahead of the “bloggers” but I don’t agree with keep giving him the benefit of the doubt after 2 straight losing seasons, soon the be 3. He’s been a great GM for the Giants during his tenure and I appreciate that but I wonder if it’s time for some new blood? And for the record, I don’t play Roto at all.

]]> By: fttts http://www.baycityball.com/2007/06/19/giant-questions-or-rearranging-deck-chairs/comment-page-1/#comment-891 fttts Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:15:54 +0000 http://www.baycityball.com/2007/06/19/giant-questions-or-rearranging-deck-chairs/#comment-891 First, I think it is just too easy to say "play the kids." If they are performing like this team and winning 5 out of 23, "fans" will start dumping trash on the field. Fans want to see decent, if not scintillating, baseball. It doesn't matter if it is Sweeney or Frandsen, if a run down/pick off is botched - especially if it is a nightly occurence, people will be angry. Second, I don't pretend to know what will happen next. I've heard a lot of descriptions of what we need, but I haven't heard too many names. And I haven't heard that they're available. Targets, sure, but bloggers like to ID targets then trash Sabean when the targets don't come home. And the big leagues are full of "prospects" spectacularly falling on their asses (Lincecum, Linden, Niekro, Kouzmanoff, Loney, Betemit, Pie, Milledge...). The tear down the team and start over philosophy is far from guaranteed. See Pittsburg, KC. And when it does work, it typically takes YEARS. (See OGC's log on the average length of a rebuild). I do subscribe to the theory that the rebuild has started and is well under way. Sabean has completely rebuilt the pitching staff. We are deep in starters (Zito, Cain, Lowry, Morris, Lincecum, Sanchez, Ortiz, Blackley, Begg, Kinney (or Palmer, I get them confused), with more on the way. We also have an outstanding (ranked 4th in NL) pen. As good as SD or LA? NO, but damned good and with depth. I hope he doesn't reach into the FA market at all for RPs, even tho we do not yet have a proven, reliable closer. While there will be some trades of position players, and I think each of them (except Aurilia, unless he recovers) has some value. I would not be at all surprised if Sabean trades off some veterans IF he can get a player who is expected to play a position in '08 or '09. I do not know how much is coming out of the minors for '08, but he has done an outstanding job of IDing the type of middle of the diamond player he wants for the NL west and ATT and they are close. He has a 2b in Conn, who couls be up in '08 or '09. He has several OFs (Schierholtz, Ort, Lewis, Timpner, Horwitz [I've left out one or two). He has Richardson coming. Actually, he is positioned to fill SS, CF and possibly 2b and RF from the minors. These players are fast, defensively outstanding OBP guys. It is true he does not have what is generally regarded as a star, the next Pujols or Bonds. But he is positioned to put a young, reliable, inexpensive SP and BP on the field along with middle of the diamond players and half of his bench. This means he only needs, thru trade or FA 4 fairly high producing position players. Some of those are already on the roster. It remains to be seen who he keeps. But he has lots of options. C: set, Molina 1b: bring in or go with a Klesko/_____ platoon 2b: Durham or Velez (in Conn) [I think Frandsen is a backup] 3b: Reliz has demonstrated he is exceptional defensively. He is also improving at the plate. If the improvement continues, he could be back. Otherwise, this is a prime spot to fill, as is SS: Omar won't be back and Frandsen is not a SS. Our SS are actually at low A, a ways away. Maybe they put Velez at SS; maybe they sign A-Rod. They have to get big time production out of one of these positions LF: Barry could be back as a glorified 4th OF and Schierholtz could be the nominal LF. They could also look for a big bat here, but they want better D than Barry provides, so I don't think it will be Dunn. CF/RF: They could keep both Roberts and Winn as they are the type of players Sabean wants for the huge ATT OF. He could trade one, but I think at least one is back for next year. If they could find a huge bat (for RF), any of Roberts, Winn, or Lewis could platoon in CF. I think this is pretty exciting. These last 23 games - actually, since early May, have been excruciating. But I think Sabean is far ahead of the bloggers as far as preparing for next year. It is just not as easy as roto league. First, I think it is just too easy to say “play the kids.” If they are performing like this team and winning 5 out of 23, “fans” will start dumping trash on the field. Fans want to see decent, if not scintillating, baseball. It doesn’t matter if it is Sweeney or Frandsen, if a run down/pick off is botched – especially if it is a nightly occurence, people will be angry.
Second, I don’t pretend to know what will happen next. I’ve heard a lot of descriptions of what we need, but I haven’t heard too many names. And I haven’t heard that they’re available. Targets, sure, but bloggers like to ID targets then trash Sabean when the targets don’t come home. And the big leagues are full of “prospects” spectacularly falling on their asses (Lincecum, Linden, Niekro, Kouzmanoff, Loney, Betemit, Pie, Milledge…). The tear down the team and start over philosophy is far from guaranteed. See Pittsburg, KC. And when it does work, it typically takes YEARS. (See OGC’s log on the average length of a rebuild).
I do subscribe to the theory that the rebuild has started and is well under way. Sabean has completely rebuilt the pitching staff. We are deep in starters (Zito, Cain, Lowry, Morris, Lincecum, Sanchez, Ortiz, Blackley, Begg, Kinney (or Palmer, I get them confused), with more on the way. We also have an outstanding (ranked 4th in NL) pen. As good as SD or LA? NO, but damned good and with depth. I hope he doesn’t reach into the FA market at all for RPs, even tho we do not yet have a proven, reliable closer.
While there will be some trades of position players, and I think each of them (except Aurilia, unless he recovers) has some value. I would not be at all surprised if Sabean trades off some veterans IF he can get a player who is expected to play a position in ’08 or ’09. I do not know how much is coming out of the minors for ’08, but he has done an outstanding job of IDing the type of middle of the diamond player he wants for the NL west and ATT and they are close. He has a 2b in Conn, who couls be up in ’08 or ’09. He has several OFs (Schierholtz, Ort, Lewis, Timpner, Horwitz [I've left out one or two).
He has Richardson coming. Actually, he is positioned to fill SS, CF and possibly 2b and RF from the minors. These players are fast, defensively outstanding OBP guys. It is true he does not have what is generally regarded as a star, the next Pujols or Bonds. But he is positioned to put a young, reliable, inexpensive SP and BP on the field along with middle of the diamond players and half of his bench. This means he only needs, thru trade or FA 4 fairly high producing position players. Some of those are already on the roster.
It remains to be seen who he keeps. But he has lots of options.
C: set, Molina
1b: bring in or go with a Klesko/_____ platoon
2b: Durham or Velez (in Conn) [I think Frandsen is a backup]
3b: Reliz has demonstrated he is exceptional defensively. He is also improving at the plate. If the improvement continues, he could be back. Otherwise, this is a prime spot to fill, as is
SS: Omar won’t be back and Frandsen is not a SS. Our SS are actually at low A, a ways away. Maybe they put Velez at SS; maybe they sign A-Rod. They have to get big time production out of one of these positions
LF: Barry could be back as a glorified 4th OF and Schierholtz could be the nominal LF. They could also look for a big bat here, but they want better D than Barry provides, so I don’t think it will be Dunn.
CF/RF: They could keep both Roberts and Winn as they are the type of players Sabean wants for the huge ATT OF. He could trade one, but I think at least one is back for next year. If they could find a huge bat (for RF), any of Roberts, Winn, or Lewis could platoon in CF.
I think this is pretty exciting. These last 23 games – actually, since early May, have been excruciating. But I think Sabean is far ahead of the bloggers as far as preparing for next year. It is just not as easy as roto league.

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